Small Unit Tactics contact patriot-dawn Patriot Rising

Acclimating to Running after a Long Layoff?

Home Forums Tactical Fitness & Nutrition Tactical Fitness Acclimating to Running after a Long Layoff?

This topic contains 15 replies, has 5 voices, and was last updated by Profile photo of JohnnyMac JohnnyMac 3 months, 2 weeks ago.

Viewing 16 posts - 1 through 16 (of 16 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • #63814
    Profile photo of Joe (G.W.N.S.)
    Joe (G.W.N.S.)
    Moderator

    I am cleared to start running again.

    I have been biking, hiking, walks, and some swimming.

    From past personal experience I know it has taken my bones longer to acclimate to running than than muscles.

    Any thoughts from our fitness or medical gurus for this mid fifties guy?

    #63815
    Profile photo of wheelsee
    wheelsee
    Participant

    Without knowing specific injury, hard to tell (PM me if you want). Was PT (Physical Therapy) involved??

    Which is heavier - a soldier's pack or a slave's chains? Napoleon

    Strength, Honor. Maximus (Gladiator)

    If you tolerate evil, you yourself are evil.
    Col Hugo Martinez, Commander Search Bloc

    William, in The Republic - CRS/CTT 2017, HEAT 2/CQB/FonF 2018, DCH 2018

    #63821
    Profile photo of Robert
    Robert
    Participant

    Checkout the barefoot running book/concept. You don’t have to actually run barefoot however. We got those “zero drop” Merrell shoes.

    About a year or so ago I was still running just a mile at a go, and then having crazy inflammation in my knee for about a week afterwards. So much so I was sometimes only running once a month.

    Wife read that barefoot running book and we got the zero drops earlier this year. You run/”yog” a little different in them, shorter stride. I now do 5K distance once or twice a week with her on tougher ground and have NO knees problems afterwards. Seriously, it has made me love running (really more like “yogging”) again.

    Much less impact on knees and joints.

    www.jrhenterprises.com
    RMP, TC3, NODF, CRCD 6/14, CP 9/14. NODF, Land Nav, 6/15. Rifleman Challenge 9/15- Vanguard. FOFtactics 3/16, 10/16, 11/16, 6/17,11/17 CTT, 6/15, 11/16, , LRMC-1 9/17 GA Mobile CTT and DA 10/16, GA mobile DCH 3/18, HEAT1 3/18 Alum weekend 8/18, Opfor CLC 10/18, DA 11/18 CQBC 12/18

    #63822
    Profile photo of Joe (G.W.N.S.)
    Joe (G.W.N.S.)
    Moderator

    Without knowing…

    There were several issues, ultimately the Achilles tendon was what took the longest to recover from and yes I went through PT. This was actually a pleasant surprise, the last time I had PT was in the mid nineties and was a extremely painful experience. Things have changed.

    As I have noted in other posts, my military career left me with many wear and tear issues. Not to mention a few lingering effects from other traumas. I know Walter Reed and Bethesda far more intimately than I care to remember from time spent there.

    Proper fitness training is the only thing that keeps me functioning well.

    Though sitting for longer times still leaves me showing this, but once I get moving the stiffness and limp goes away.

    In the past (active duty) I had less than adequate time to get back in shape after being cleared. Of course I was younger too. ;-)

    It seemed to take my bones longer to acclimate to the impacts of running than my cardio and muscles.

    I have discovered Robert’s suggestion from my adopted choice of boots that have the minimalist reduced drop.

    I have had far less issues since using these and am planning to go minimalist for running.

    I don’t keep well informed on physical training developments so I thought I would see if there were any thoughts from those that do.

    I want to ease myself into this to avoid injuries to the maximum. I would rather settle for less than peak performance than push too far and have any more setbacks.

    #63823
    Profile photo of Joe (G.W.N.S.)
    Joe (G.W.N.S.)
    Moderator

    The idea of minimalist/barefoot running changes how you run. I am hopeful that this change will reduce impact and avoid my other complications.

    Though well read on the subject, for me this is still theory. I have heard many with positive results.

    So this is a option I am exploring after positive results from my Minimalist Boots.

    I don’t believe in “one size fits all” solutions.

    So any input is appreciated and it maybe helpful options for others here.

    Shortly after Max’s wake up call here on the Forum I made great strides and was doing outstanding. Unfortunately I started wanting to see how far my performance could go, this and a prescription medicine complication lead to achilles injury. I believe Wheelsee has mentioned the Cipro side effect potential.

    Now I just want be satisfied with the great, vice outstanding shape! ;-)

    #63824
    Profile photo of JohnnyMac
    JohnnyMac
    Participant

    A few thoughts, not directly at Joe, but for everyone:

    1) Don’t run that much. It might seem counterintuitive, but you really don’t need to run much in order to be capable of performing just fine, IF YOU ARE ROUTINELY PERFORMING OTHER CARDIO-CENTRIC stuff. Joe, you mentioned biking, hiking, swimming, etc. Keep doing those. Try to think of all those as the same category and interchangeable. I ran in college, and 3 out of 4 years I had sidelining injuries. It can be rough on the body.

    2) Run on grass/trails whenever possible. Impact is reduced running on softer surfaces compared to concrete (sidewalks) or asphalt (road). The camber of road surfaces can also do strange things when putting in high mileage if you always run on the same side of the road, which most people do.

    3) In regard to minimalist footwear, that’s fine (if you know what you’re doing). I think the reason minimalist footwear is highly praised is because when people make the switch, one of two things happen: they improve their form or they injure themselves, probably due to poor running mechanics. The average person doesn’t realize that running is a skill, and you sometimes hear things like “that’s just how I run”. It’s the equivalent of someone shooting without using their sights and replying “that’s just how I shoot”. Form is vital.

    4) I don’t know that this applies to you Joe, but I’ll mention it for the general audience, if you’re carrying around extra weight, you’re adding to the wear and tear. You can be damn sure I’m more tired (and slower) running with a 20# vest. I can feel that extra weight in terms of wear and tear on longer cumulative distances in a workout. Just FYI: I don’t go out on distance runs in a vest. If you have extra weight, let’s say 20lbs or more, be extra cautious as you ramp up.

    5) Start ridiculously easy. Coming back from injury, I always suggest something super short to test the waters. The first run or two should be 3-5 minutes, that’s it! Think of it as a side dish to your workout rather than the entree, at least for a while (also, see #1).

    6) Work in short intervals. I’ll be completely up front, I rarely just straight go running. What I will do is work in running intervals as part of a conditioning workout. This has a few benefits. First, it means you *should* be able to move at a faster pace. The vast majority of people run with good form when running fast, especially in comparison to their jogging form. Remember, bad form greatly increases risk of injury, soooo, running faster can reduce likelihood of injury (for the record, I don’t mean 80%+ max effort sprinting, which can be pretty high impact). Another benefit to short intervals is that it gives the body some time to rest, albeit small, but it gives you a chance to more easily assess how your feeling and make a more informed decision on when you’ve had enough.

    7) Listen to the body. Pay attention to what it’s telling you. Never try to “work through” what feels like an injury in a workout, you’ll just make things worse. Learning to be able to separate injury pain from “good” pain and knowing when your body has had enough for the day.

    8) Work on flexibility. A great resource is mobilityWOD on youtube. A lack of flexibility will lead to poor biomechanics that will lead to injury. :earn good stretching/flossing technique. Develop your own routine, targeting your weak flexibility areas, and do that every day (or multiple times per day). After a workout while your body is still warmed up, target your weak areas or areas you just thrashed in the workout. Sooo many people neglect flexibility, it should be just as important as your workout performance.

    9) Rest and diet. Managing rest, both in terms of adequate sleep and time between workouts is really important. Also diet can play a big role in how your body recovers. Everyone gets passionate about diet, so I’ll just leave it at that.

    Now, if I were in my 50’s, coming back from a injury, this is probably the general gist of what my week might look like fitness wise:

    Sunday: Long walk
    Monday: Squats or Deadlifts + short conditioning workout
    Tuesday: Non-weightbearing cardio intervals
    Wednesday: Rest
    Thursday: Pressing (of some sort) + short conditioning workout
    Friday: Longer conditioning workout
    Saturday: Rest

    *fit the running in as part of the conditioning workouts and occasionally swap the Sunday long walk for a run of 2-4 miles

    #63826
    Profile photo of Robert
    Robert
    Participant

    Great post JM!

    www.jrhenterprises.com
    RMP, TC3, NODF, CRCD 6/14, CP 9/14. NODF, Land Nav, 6/15. Rifleman Challenge 9/15- Vanguard. FOFtactics 3/16, 10/16, 11/16, 6/17,11/17 CTT, 6/15, 11/16, , LRMC-1 9/17 GA Mobile CTT and DA 10/16, GA mobile DCH 3/18, HEAT1 3/18 Alum weekend 8/18, Opfor CLC 10/18, DA 11/18 CQBC 12/18

    #63828
    Profile photo of Joe (G.W.N.S.)
    Joe (G.W.N.S.)
    Moderator

    …think of all those as the same category and interchangeable.

    Do you think running once a week is sufficient add on to my other forms given your suggested general plan?

    …minimalist footwear…

    My experience with minimalist boots has changed having painful feet to only tired feet (end of day) as the best description I can think of. My theory is that I had become so used to wearing traditional military type boots that provided so much protection and support the majority of the time, that my feet had become weaker. Then when not in those boots my feet would hurt at end of the day and be susceptible to minor injury when in normal footwear.

    The little running in these boots I’ve done with the different style has made me open to trying this option for exercise.

    …if you’re carrying around extra weight, you’re adding to the wear and tear.

    100% agreement! Before this injury I was working on that stubborn last inch of belly fat. From previous experience of gaining weight while injured I am happy I kept things down to only needing to drop a couple of inches now. So I lost some progress, but not that much.

    Never try to “work through” what feels like an injury in a workout, you’ll just make things worse.

    This has been hard, not because I am a idiot ;-) , but because I have some chronic pain that isn’t going away. The good news is the only thing that minimizes this pain is exercise. It is truly amazing how much being stronger supports various skeletal parts. For instance my c-spine doesn’t pinch nerves that otherwise happen when weaker. Though certain exercises such as pull ups can’t be done to exhaustion, if I try it shifts enough that the next morning my neck will be messed up for several days.

    Everyone gets passionate about diet, so I’ll just leave it at that.

    Definitely a hot button issue! ;-)

    Non-weightbearing cardio intervals

    Please explain this?

    I really appreciate your detailed response to my post. Definitely is helpful and hopefully for others too.

    #63829
    Profile photo of Joe (G.W.N.S.)
    Joe (G.W.N.S.)
    Moderator

    The first run or two should be 3-5 minutes, that’s it! Think of it as a side dish to your workout rather than the entree, at least for a while (also, see #1).

    This is very helpful. I would have leaned towards longer time, this gives me a reason to be even more conservative to start.

    #63838
    Profile photo of JohnnyMac
    JohnnyMac
    Participant

    Do you think running once a week is sufficient add on to my other forms given your suggested general plan?

    Sorry to give the standard response of: it depends. Some people have more running ability than others, and may require more or less frequency. For me, the sweet spot is running of some sort twice per week if running ability is more important to me during my training cycle (still not top prioirity though), or roughly 3 running workouts in two weeks if I’m merely sustaining running ability. To give a one-size-fits-all answer, I’d have to say twice per week, as part of a conditioning workout (example: 20 minutes, as many rounds as possible: Run 400m, 15x pushups, 20x lunges).

    My experience with minimalist boot

    Yeah, so just personally, I workout in new balance minimus shoes. THey work well 95% of the time. The only time they suck is extended load carrying- they just don’t have enough foot support, but like you said, it just leads to tired feet. I wouldn’t use them for extended running though.

    I’ve had both good and bad experience with minimalist footwear. Good: the one year of college running I wasn’t injured, I spent 4 months doing weekly barefoot runs of short distance 2ish miles (maybe coincidience?). My bad experience was switching to speed trainers for long distance running, and got a stress fracture within a week to 10 days. I think minimalist is great, as long as you aren’t logging a bunch of miles per week running in them. Just my two cents.

    The good news is the only thing that minimizes this pain is exercise

    You took the words out of my mouth. I have a (minor) chronic back injury. I can be pain free if I’m working out and keeping up on my stretching but if I’m mostly sedentary and not stretching it’s no good.

    Sometimes people’s egos get in the way, and they set ridiculous expectations during a workout, based on what they used to be able to do, instead of where they’re currently at. Also, as warriors, it never feels good to “quit” a workout- and a long Army career definitely perpetuated the idea of “toughing it out”. There’s a time and place for character-building self-sacrifice to the fitness gods, but that time is not when you’re injured (whether chronic or something pops up in a workout). For chronic issues, the waters are too murky to give a real answer, that’s where it’s probably an informed decision with input from a sports medicine doc or similar. On a side note, most regular Orthos have no clue about sports specific injuries and you’re better off seeing a sports medicine doc or PT doc. My personal opinion, PT docs aren’t given the credit they deserve.

    JohnnyMac wrote:
    Non-weightbearing cardio intervals

    Please explain this?

    What I meant was taking activities like: rowing, swimming, biking, or that crazy contraption I don’t even know about, and doing high intensity intervals.

    Example 1: 6x Row 500m, rest 1:1
    Example 2: Swim 50m, 75m, 100m, 75m, 50m
    Example 3: 10x Airdyne 15 calories

    The above is far too boring for me, so I like to mix in other stuff with those things to make a conditioning workout (sometimes I’ll refer to these as metcon).

    Modified Example 1: 6 Rounds of: Row 500m, 8x Ring Dips, 4x Heavy Clean&Jerks

    Modified Example 2: Swim 50m and 10 burpees, Swim 75m and 15 burpees, Swim 100m and 20 burpees, Swim 75m and 15 burpees, Swim 50m and 10 burpees (warning, that sounds brutal to me haha)
    *on a side note: instead of regular burpees, I’ve done “get-out-the-pools”, just hauling yourself out of the pool without using steps/ladder. They are more entertaining and are a good skill to have should you find yourself overboard of a small water craft, or as a low-impact version of getting over a high wall.

    Modified Example 3: 20 min. as many rounds as possible of: Airdyne 15 calories, 10x Pullups, 15x KB swings, 20x Situps

    #63850
    Profile photo of Joe (G.W.N.S.)
    Joe (G.W.N.S.)
    Moderator

    I think minimalist is great, as long as you aren’t logging a bunch of miles per week running in them. Just my two cents.

    I think this falls into my favorite “no such thing as one size fits all solutions.”

    Will update my experience with minimalist running as things progress.

    I don’t think high mileage running is in my future plans.

    Sometimes people’s egos get in the way, and they set ridiculous expectations during a workout, based on what they used to be able to do, instead of where they’re currently at.

    Agreed!

    Another trap for me was getting caught up with so much progress that I wanted to test my limits.

    As Harry Callahan said “A man’s got to know his limitations!” ;-)

    #63853
    Profile photo of Roadkill
    Roadkill
    Participant

    Just a thought that has helped me. Everything JMac says is spot on. My IT bands were/still are somewhat tight. Try submyofacial release using some type of foam roller. It hurts like crazy but in a fairly short time they will loosen up.

    RS/CTT Nov 16
    HEAT1 Aug18

    #63863
    Profile photo of Joe (G.W.N.S.)
    Joe (G.W.N.S.)
    Moderator

    Well I spent a long time stretching, then did a five minute minimalist run. Felt good, then did a medium distance bike ride.

    Will see how I feel by Sunday. :good:

    #63866
    Profile photo of wheelsee
    wheelsee
    Participant

    Well I spent a long time stretching, then did a five minute minimalist run. Felt good, then did a medium distance bike ride.

    If I’m wrong, somebody speak up (@JohnnyMac) but I was always taught to warmup, exercise, then stretch afterwards. The muscle is well-warmed and can get a better (read more productive) stretch.

    More info here https://www.webmd.com/fitness-exercise/features/how-to-stretch#1

    Which is heavier - a soldier's pack or a slave's chains? Napoleon

    Strength, Honor. Maximus (Gladiator)

    If you tolerate evil, you yourself are evil.
    Col Hugo Martinez, Commander Search Bloc

    William, in The Republic - CRS/CTT 2017, HEAT 2/CQB/FonF 2018, DCH 2018

    #63867
    Profile photo of Joe (G.W.N.S.)
    Joe (G.W.N.S.)
    Moderator

    I’ve heard before, after, and both before and after!

    Willing to listen to any thoughts, though I’ve always stretched before as part of my pre warm-up.

    #63895
    Profile photo of JohnnyMac
    JohnnyMac
    Participant

    If I’m wrong, somebody speak up (@JohnnyMac) but I was always taught to warmup, exercise, then stretch afterwards. The muscle is well-warmed and can get a better (read more productive) stretch.

    Bingo, at least that the basic answer. There’s actually studies that have shown stretching prior to lifting decreasing max performance.

    I always advocate a dynamic warmup, with stretching afterwards. That’s not to say you can’t stretch at other times. If you have some particular flexibility issues (HAMSTRINGS anyone???), you’ll need to work on those in addition to the usual post workout stretch.

    Really good example of a warmup: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VW42KKmjEZY

Viewing 16 posts - 1 through 16 (of 16 total)

You must be logged in to reply to this topic.