May 12, 2018 at 10:47 am #58357
I thought this might be a little fun as well as educational regarding AIWB carry.
First this method of carry has existed for a really long time with many using it long before it allegedly became cool!
From PACT Timers:
The part I am concerned with begins at 0:50. This is from Miami Vice 1984. The “assasin” shooter is Jim Zubiena a major pistol competitor from that era.
The Summer Special holster designed by Bruce Nelson who was a career undercover narcotics agent with the California Department of Justice during the 1960s and 1970s as well as an early Gunsite instructor.
The following is not exactly AIWB carry as we understand it today, but is close and interesting historically.
For National People’s Army (NPA) hit men it wasn’t always a one shot-one kill affair. A second shooter would lay in, and wait while the hit went down. After the target lay bleeding on the ground he would stroll up and deliver a coup de grace. Apparently, Teddy’s backup man didn’t see much work though. He only fired head shots and was deadly accurate.
Eventually Teddy was captured in what sounds to me like a random, routine traffic stop. His skill set was too valuable for the regime to disappear Teddy or let him rot in prison. Instead, they put him to work assassinating his old comrades in the NPA. Word on the street is that he even did some jobs for the CIA back in the 80’s.May 12, 2018 at 2:00 pm #58361
I absolutely hated AIWB when I first tried it. It wasn’t until I got a really good holster and adjusted the belt clips that I found I liked it.
It’s not for everyone. Depending on body type and day to day life it could very well be a terrible option. It’s also not compatible with armor and long guns and so is usually cast aside when those are the tools primarily used. It also requires a lot of practice and is definitely not easier than other methods of carry. It’s more of an advanced method for a specific profile. Not better per say but more tailored to a different mission. A tool for the tool box.
It does have some very distinct advantages one of which is concealability. It also lends itself to an inherently faster draw stroke. I like it because the gun is centerline and so it’s only observable from the front. Which means I can see anyone who might notice my gun. Target glancing is a thing. You can’t tell if someone on your side or rear notices a print.
AIWB is a little more useful retention as I can get both hands on it to secure in the holster, or my off hand. With typical strong side carry you can only use your primary hand for retention. You can also draw when mounted. It’s much easier to use in a car too as the seat belt goes over the holster rather than the grip of the gun.
If the handgun is your primary weapon and concealment is your primary concern it’s worth trying out. If you don’t like it or it’s not for you then no harm no foul. If like me you find it works better for your lifestyle then you’ll love it.
I will also add there is a learning curve when you first start carrying. You need a safe way to transition your training from your current method of carry to AIWB. It’s not hard but definitely takes a concentrated approach.
I’ll write more about it if you guys want and let’s try to keep the “stop liking what I don’t like” to about a 1 on the 1-10 scale.
You are what you do, when it counts. -The Masao
Not the other Aaron's in this industry!May 12, 2018 at 3:07 pm #58362
I’ve been using AIWB as my primary carry method for a long time, way before the current interest.
My first priority in selecting a CCW method was finding an appropriate option for a full size pistol, a Beretta M9 in my case.
No other option was as effective as AIWB for me.
I can AIWB my M9 in total concealment with shorts and t-shirt, this is an important consideration here in Florida.
Personal build and type of weapon are the biggest factors in any method of CCW.
There are many LEO’s in my AO that CCW on their hip in shorts and t-shirt and it stands out for anyone with a clue.
Comfort is a relative thing and very personal choice.
For me comfort is at the bottom of my list of requirements. That’s not to say I want or accept too much discomfort, just not a big deal for me.
Additionally AIWB has helped me stay focused on my fitness, since any gains to my waist are very evident and encourage me to not let myself gain weight.
A major thing to avoid in my opinion is the quick reholster!
When practicing draws and conducting drills it is all too easy to fall into “speed reholstering” something you see all to often online. I consider holstering to be the greatest potential for a screwup and should be down deliberately with thought, not on autopilot.
Complacency is dangerous regardless of the activity.
AIWB is a option for those whose safety and handling is completely developed, which is why I don’t recommend new shooters choosing it.
There are no one size fits all solutions for CCW and AIWB is one of many valid options.May 12, 2018 at 5:22 pm #58363
Joe once again you said some things that I agree with!
Actually the first time I saw AIWB was in Afghanistan. One of the SF we were working with used it for his M9. He actually used a loop of 550 cord to do it. You’d never have know. Granted he was in DCUs at the time but he did it in the mandress and civis too.
It’s not for those with a few extra pounds that’s for sure.
You’re also right about holstering. It’s gotta be slow and deliberate. I’ve had my holsters made so that the kydex that touches my body is orange or lime green. Some high viz color so that even in the dark I have the contrast to the black front and can easily guide the pistol back. There should also be a slight hip cant to.
Good on ya for carrying an M9. I love that gun but damn if I’ll carry one if given a choice!
You are what you do, when it counts. -The Masao
Not the other Aaron's in this industry!May 12, 2018 at 6:20 pm #58364
I agree with much of what both of you say!
And as first sgt said in the other thread, I carry my knife centerline, primarily for my off hand, but assessable with either.
Medical supplies shock corded in back pocket and reload in a raven/Mdts Moduloader.
And Asron, about big guys carrying appendix. Where there is a will there is a way.
CRCD AUG 13, CRCD MAR 14, CP AUG 14, CR MAR 15, Shivworks ECQC, MVT RIFLEMAN, CTT AUG 16, CQBCMay 12, 2018 at 6:28 pm #58365
In terms of reholstering, I was taught to take a step back with the dominant foot, roll or can’t my hips forward and slowly look my pistol into the holster.
CRCD AUG 13, CRCD MAR 14, CP AUG 14, CR MAR 15, Shivworks ECQC, MVT RIFLEMAN, CTT AUG 16, CQBCMay 12, 2018 at 6:35 pm #58367
He actually used a loop of 550 cord to do it.
Yea I’ve seen that method. I had one of these made for a Beretta that I took to Afghanistan.
It’s gotta be slow and deliberate.
Yea that speed holstering is a real pet pieve of mine, but even more so with AIWB.
I love that gun but damn if I’ll carry one if given a choice!
It’s funny, when we changed from 1911’s to M9’s I absolutely hated them and particularly the slide mounted safety/decocker. I remember not being able to reach it with my thumb without changing grip.
Then one day I could.
I had my own magazines and various accessories, but no Beretta. When I retired and gave my kids (adults) most of my firearms and got out of collecting.
So after years of being a die-hard 1911 guy, I bought myself a commercial M9.
It made sense for me since I already had all of the infrastructure and didn’t really want to learn a new pistol.
I started out with a Ruger Security Six .357 as my CCW, remember back then LEO’s were just transitioning to automatics. Eventually went to a 1911.
My revolver background made the double action M9 trigger easy to master.
Just recently got around to converting the M9 to G model decock only with the Beretta M9A3 G Conversion Kit.
The M9 does everything I want and with the amount of trigger time I have with them it’s just a comfortable relationship.
Not to mention helping to keep my gun nut/collector condition in remission!May 12, 2018 at 6:40 pm #58368
Where there is a will there is a way.
Yea, but my experience says it’s far more comfortable with a lean waist.May 12, 2018 at 6:46 pm #58369
Isn’t everything better with a lean waist!?
As a big man who was a big kid and has gone back and forth recently, I’m just sayin’ there are options.
CRCD AUG 13, CRCD MAR 14, CP AUG 14, CR MAR 15, Shivworks ECQC, MVT RIFLEMAN, CTT AUG 16, CQBCMay 12, 2018 at 6:51 pm #58370
I’m just sayin’ there are options.
During the Holliday season my M9 let’s me know when it’s time to practice “push aways!”May 12, 2018 at 8:33 pm #58371
I’m like Quigley when it comes to the Beretta. It was my first handgun and I bought it to stay proficient as at that time in my life I depended on it. A lot. I carried it. Competed with it. All the things. I would carry it on half cock in a kydex IWB. I have a ton of gear and magazines for it. I’m not happy about the Sig and the M9A3 not getting the PIP contract but whatever. I’ll use what they give me.
I’ve found that there is some merit to being able to holster quickly. Especially having to transition seamlessly from gun to empty hand and then to cuffs or less lethal and back and forth. On a chaotic scene I’ve gone through all the shit on my belt and it wasn’t pretty!
You are what you do, when it counts. -The Masao
Not the other Aaron's in this industry!May 12, 2018 at 9:10 pm #58372
I’ve found that there is some merit to being able to holster quickly.
I suspect we are still closer on this than not, let’s face it even taking your time we aren’t talking very long. Not to mention most of us aren’t LEO’s facing that scenario.
Life is full of exceptions!
I’m not happy about the Sig and the M9A3 not getting the PIP contract…
Makes as much sense as dyeing UCP uniforms, spending money to spend money!
I am sure the Sig will be ok, but given the hype at best it is only slightly better (maybe) and given the expense certainly not worth it.
Where is the no recoil, large caliber, elephant ammunition they wanted?
XM8 is another example, until a dramatic advance in technology occurs, replacing the M4 is a foolish expense.
The current USMC IAR M27 fiasco, they take a reasonable idea and turn it into a unreasonable system.
From back in the day files the Close Assault Weapon System would have been an excellent augmentation for Jungle Warfare, then they try to reinvent and replace the rifle?
Bureaucrats!May 12, 2018 at 10:57 pm #58379First SergeantModerator
Thanks for the two videos. Especially the Miami Vice part. I have read several articles about that scene over the years.
But we can’t talk about AIWB without calling what we all called it years ago, Mexican Carry. Usually with a 1911. I used to be a die hard 1911 guy also and carried that way on more than one occasion.
I know a lot of guys that carry that way. They put the time and effort into learning the pros and cons of it. The problem I see with it is there are a lot of people doing it because it’s the cool guy thing to do now. Those are the ones that are not putting in the range time and dry fire time to get good and safe with it.
I have experimented with it but for me it just doesn’t work. Getting on and off of tractors, being around livestock etc. For me it just sucks.
The speed holster is is how people end up with Glock leg. I teach in DCH to watch your gun back into your holster. The class is geared toward concealed carry, so it makes sense. For cops it’s a whole different ball game, you can go from having your gun out to having to go hands on.
The above is another reason why I am an advocate for hammer fired pistols. The simple act of placing your thumb over the hammer when you reholster can prevent getting a whole in you leg or ass.
Signal out, can you identify.
Je ne regrette rien...
Klagt Nicht, KämpftMay 12, 2018 at 11:26 pm #58382
The problem I see with it is there are a lot of people doing it because it’s the cool guy thing to do now.
All too true.
For me it just sucks.
Reality of no one size fits all solutions. This is important for the less experienced to really pay attention to. I am an experienced handgunner and love AIWB, First Sergeant is obviously a very experienced and knowledgeable handgunner, but AIWB doesn’t work for him. Note, his decision is not based on some myth, but actual use that just doesn’t meet his needs.
The speed holster is is how people end up with Glock leg.
Remember the Waco video where BATF Agent on ladder shoots himself? Classic Glock leg.
The simple act of placing your thumb over the hammer when you reholster can prevent getting a whole in you leg or ass.
Conveniently forgotten in a striker World.May 13, 2018 at 3:02 am #58391MaxKeymaster
AIWB vs. Hip OWB thoughts.
Yes, I really mean OWB, as stated in my other comments. Glock 26 in kydex. Why? Because ultimately I hate IWB holsters!
Great for concealability. Centerline draw.
Taking holster on and off, even in vehicle, when needed – complete with gun in it.
If you are using a public gym with changing room/lockers, this is a real issue.
Not always ideal for concealability – had to have a tight belt or holster will roll forward and print a little. Probably belly fat does not help as all you assholes are insinuating!
Also if you have kids / babies and regularly go to places like Chick-fil-a with the little kid area, the assurance of concealbility is great to not alarm any soccer moms.
AIWB is shit as a practical manual labor means of carry. Ask me how I know – digging target pits.
Hip carry at 3, with spare mag and light at 9 is perfect for manual work and general comfort. It is basically an open carry method with everyday comfort and practicality. All I am doing is concealing with a shirt. Shirt comes off to work. Concealability would be aided by IWB options.
With gun on one hip and mag pouches on the other, I know I am printing at times. Anyone in the know can check me out and notice. Handle of the handgun printing on the shirt is a dead giveaway for OWB or IWB. Effectively what I am doing is open carry like you see a cop in civilian clothes doing, with a shirt over the top (and no badge on my belt!)
This is a balance and trades deep concealability for everyday practicality. I have the AIWB holster in the car as an option.
So, here is a recent story. Went to court for not having an inspection sticker (out of date). Fucking State Trooper as usual. Nice guy though….lol. So, have to go though court security. AIWB would have been easy, pop it off and leave it in the car. I have my shit on my belt, and for giggles it is also multicam. Leave the actual contents in the car. Half expected to be stopped for simply wearing a holster. Metal detector alarmed on my gun belt. Guy wanded the buckle and had me undo it. Either did not notice or did not care about my belt kit.
Went to courtroom. Sheriff on door was enforcing a tuck the shirt policy. Fuck. Had a quiet word. Had to go the bathroom and unthread all my shit. Entered courtroom with tucked shirt and carrying multicam kydex holster and taco mag pouch lol.
Anyway, they wheeled out a retired judge and forgot about my case, so I sat through it all. Loved this guy. He was upholding the constitution and having guys escape the typical bitch prosecutor. Oh he made some comments! Loved it. At one point my State trooper guy was scheduling further court dates and the comment was he was busy, at which point the judge said it was a good thing. As it kept him off the roads. I was clutching my sides at the back of the court!
Anyway, he got done and I made myself known. Went up there with the trooper. Declared myself guilty in response to the question. At which point the judge told me to plead not guilty, so I did. Lol. (I was guilty, my inspection was out of date, but the law is an ass). Then he asked me if I had the inspection done, yes, and he said he was dismissing it all. No court fees even. Win.
I was back in the restroom threading my shit back onto the belt.
Even when the judge had to charge speeders, it was a pleasure to witness his comments about the fines and sneaky ways to raise tax revenue….clearly one of the good ones.May 13, 2018 at 3:26 am #58392
Not always ideal for concealability – had to have a tight belt or holster will roll forward and print a little.
Something I’ve found is the holster for a full size pistol can aid in reducing that, think more leverage.
I not up on all the Glock combinations, but some people use for example a Glock 17 AIWB holster for a Glock 19.
Probably belly fat does not help as all you assholes are insinuating!
Welcome to my World, it is always a struggle to keep it in check. Getting older with some previous injuries flaring up sucks.
That Court drama sounds great, would have loved to been there.May 13, 2018 at 3:37 am #58393MaxKeymaster
Why are you awake weirdo! I am having one of my periodic insomnia nights….crimes against humanity….May 13, 2018 at 3:54 am #58394
am having one of my periodic insomnia nights…
Again welcome to my World!
If you note the timing of my posts, I can be around almost anytime.
Hell I am single, your the one acting weird. Married with a household of kids, when my kids were in that age group 9 PM was late night!May 13, 2018 at 4:02 am #58395dave37Participant
I’ve been carrying AIWB since 2006. A few random thoughts on AIWB vs strong side hip carry:
-AIWB has an advantage in a standing clinch. With your gun on the hip, the other guy’s hand automatically lands on the gun when he underhooks you, and if he gets a grip on your gun he has a strong pull from that underhook position. Whereas in AIWB, if he grabs for the gun, he is automatically setting himself up to get his arm dragged and his back taken.
-Strong side hip has an advantage if you are on bottom on the ground, because, you can roll onto the hip and bury the gun under your body so there’s no way he’s getting it out of the holster. In AIWB, there’s no way to do that.
-A good holster and a stiff belt are critical to making AIWB work without too much printing. The holster should have padding at the bottom to force the grips of the gun closer in to your gut. The best AIWB holster I know of is the Keeper from Keepers Concealment. A longer barrel can help with that too. My concealment gun is a Glock 17 with the grip cut to Glock 19 length. The long barrel helps keep the grip from rolling out, and the shorter grips print less.
-AIWB and strong side hip are both fine. They have advantages and disadvantages, and really it’s pretty much a wash as to which one is better. Either one is fine if you have the right setup and train with it.
Texas CTT/Mobility 2017, Missouri 1 Day CQB 2017, Texas HEAT 2 2018, Operation TeaSinker 2019
Team Coyote, Team CowbellMay 13, 2018 at 6:34 am #58400
Compliance tickets are easy. If you get it taken care of before court you can come in whenever to the clerks office and show a receipt and the clerk tosses it right there. Don’t have to sit in court. I try to give people 1-3 months before their court date so they have plenty of time to deal with it without coming to court. Just for work, life etc.
You are what you do, when it counts. -The Masao
Not the other Aaron's in this industry!May 13, 2018 at 6:52 am #58402
Oh my god. I had a really long post about AIWB, weapon transitions and thumb indexing but my connection failed and I lost it all. I’m not retyping that monster. I’ll tey to post one thought at a time. Ugh stupid county internet.
You are what you do, when it counts. -The Masao
Not the other Aaron's in this industry!May 13, 2018 at 8:57 am #58406
I use a rcs wedge and rcs claw on my AIWB holsters like in this pic I found online. This prevents the grip from flopping out for me.
CRCD AUG 13, CRCD MAR 14, CP AUG 14, CR MAR 15, Shivworks ECQC, MVT RIFLEMAN, CTT AUG 16, CQBCMay 19, 2018 at 4:49 pm #58550
CRCD AUG 13, CRCD MAR 14, CP AUG 14, CR MAR 15, Shivworks ECQC, MVT RIFLEMAN, CTT AUG 16, CQBCMay 19, 2018 at 9:23 pm #58551RoadkillParticipant
JeffSags, that’s like saying 10,000,000 peasants can’t be wrong about the AK47.
RS/CTT Nov 16
HEAT1 Aug18May 19, 2018 at 10:43 pm #58552JohnnyMacParticipant
Claw, claw for days.
On another note, rumor is Medina was murdered not long after that video clip, by fellow members of his gang, for getting caught.May 20, 2018 at 11:23 am #58555
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.