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Ammon Bundy Arrested and Shooting: Update 3/18/16

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This topic contains 214 replies, has 33 voices, and was last updated by Profile photo of Al skeets4039 2 years, 9 months ago.

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  • #24099
    Profile photo of Trailman
    trailman
    Participant

    caught this on Sam Culpers page, FBI made a felony stop on a vehicle carrying him and there was a shooting. That’s all that’s known.

    CRM, CTT 1501, CP11/15, CTT5/16, FoF, DCH, CLC Opfor, Team Minion

    Just remember, Anne Frank was a criminal because the government made her one and she died because she broke the law.

    #24106
    Profile photo of Wild Bill
    Wild Bill
    Participant

    By Samuel Culper

    This evening, the FBI made a legal, felony stop on a vehicle carrying Ammon Bundy and several other individuals. After a shoot out with the FBI, four individuals were reportedly taken into custody, including Ammon Bundy. Two individuals are reported to have been taken to the Burns hospital, which is currently on lock down.

    FBI sources stated that those at the Refuge are currently free to leave unimpeded, implying that there might be action if they do not leave immediately.

    Although those in custody have not been confirmed, we can safely assume that Buddha Cavalier was with Ammon. Ryan Payne suffered multiple gunshot wounds and was taken to the hospital, according to local officials.

    UPDATES:

    1811L: Blaine Cooper has reportedly assumed leadership at the Refuge and has been told to leave immediately. During a phone call with Pete Santilli, Pete can be overheard saying, “Blaine, please don’t do this.” Blaine is reportedly wanting to make a stand. Women and children are still at the Refuge.

    1821L: According to local government officials, Ryan Payne suffered multiple gunshot wounds and was taken to the Burns hospital.

    1827L: Awaiting a forthcoming statement from law enforcement regarding the shoot out and arrests.

    1844L: KATU News is now reporting that eight occupiers have been taken into custody.

    1850L: Pete Santilli and Joe Oshaugnessy have also been arrested.

    https://readfomag.com/2016/01/breaking-ammon-bundy-in-fbi-custody/

    CTT 1511, LN 1

    “I do believe that, where there is only a choice between cowardice and violence, I would advise violence..." - Gandhi

    #24108
    Profile photo of Joe (G.W.N.S.)
    Joe (G.W.N.S.)
    Moderator

    Combined these two Threads for clarity.

    Be interesting to see how this develops from here.

    #24110
    Profile photo of Trailman
    trailman
    Participant

    Word is levoy finicum is dead

    CRM, CTT 1501, CP11/15, CTT5/16, FoF, DCH, CLC Opfor, Team Minion

    Just remember, Anne Frank was a criminal because the government made her one and she died because she broke the law.

    #24111
    Profile photo of Ragnarok
    ragnarok
    Participant

    It wasn’t a traffic stop….it was an execution. Pure and simple.

    “According to Oregon Live, the leaders had been en route to John Day – 70 miles from Burns – to appear as guest speakers at a meeting with hundreds of local residents.” Dailymail.com
    Couldn’t let them garner more support, could they?

    #24114
    Profile photo of Wild Bill
    Wild Bill
    Participant

    Forward Observer
    UPDATES:

    1811L: Blaine Cooper has reportedly assumed leadership at the Refuge and has been told to leave immediately. During a phone call with Pete Santilli, Pete can be overheard saying, “Blaine, please don’t do this.” Blaine is reportedly wanting to make a stand. Women and children are still at the Refuge.

    1821L: According to local government officials, Ryan Payne suffered multiple gunshot wounds and was taken to the Burns hospital.

    1827L: Awaiting a forthcoming statement from law enforcement regarding the shoot out and arrests.

    1844L: KATU News is now reporting that eight occupiers have been taken into custody.

    1850L: Pete Santilli and Joe Oshaugnessy have also been arrested.

    1857L: Law Enforcement reporting the arrest of the following individuals:
    Ammon Bundy, Ryan Bundy, Brian Cavalier, Shawna Cox, Ryan Payne — and JJoe O’Shaghnessy in a separate arrest.

    1900L: FBI reporting that one of the occupiers is now deceased.

    1924L: LaVoy Finicum dead.

    CTT 1511, LN 1

    “I do believe that, where there is only a choice between cowardice and violence, I would advise violence..." - Gandhi

    #24115
    Profile photo of Max Velocity
    Max
    Keymaster

    #24116
    Profile photo of Max Velocity
    Max
    Keymaster

    GWNS: Do you have time to be on this, with our own update / info stream / analysis?

    #24117
    Profile photo of Joe (G.W.N.S.)
    Joe (G.W.N.S.)
    Moderator

    If anyone finds applicable articles or other sources please post.

    Any rumors or secondhand information is acceptable, but please label it accordingly.

    I will post some more thoughts soon.

    Obviously there is a great deal of chaff to sort through regarding this along with attempts to not only shape attitudes, but true manipulation by many besides government.

    There are many agendas regarding this situation.

    #24119
    Profile photo of Palmetto
    Palmetto
    Participant

    Sam Culper’s facebook post has some good and interesting things in the comments. One item was post of a video from a guy named Mark McConnell who claims to have been driving one of the vehicles that was pulled over during the arrests and shooting. He claims to have been driving the vehicle that Ammon Bundy was in. His story is that Finicum tried to drive off, got stuck in a snow bank, exited his vehicle, and charged at the FBI and then he was shot. I have no idea how accurate or reliable this info is. You can check it out yourself here:

    https://www.facebook.com/mark.mcconnell.127648/videos/10154667085229762/

    Pray for peace but prepare for war.

    CR, Nov 8-9, 2014; CTT, Apr 24-26, 2015

    #24126
    Profile photo of Trailman
    trailman
    Participant

    I watched that video. Who is this guy? Why do I feel like he is just pimping himself for ten minutes. He doesn’t come across as someone who just saw a fellow patriot gunned down. In the middle of it all he says he didn’t see what happened. Just saying. I don’t think I’m going to believe anything unless its from Bundy at this time. I’m with G.W. as I’m looking at a lot of “”III%” talk and everyone is either thumping chests or throwing shit “again”.

    CRM, CTT 1501, CP11/15, CTT5/16, FoF, DCH, CLC Opfor, Team Minion

    Just remember, Anne Frank was a criminal because the government made her one and she died because she broke the law.

    #24128
    Profile photo of Palmetto
    Palmetto
    Participant

    Here is another claimed eyewitness account, this time from a girl who was in the car with Finicum and supposedly witnessed the shooting. (EDIT: Max posted this earlier above – sorry to repeat) Her account and McConnell’s account seem to corroborate each other. This account was posted by Sam Culper on his Forward Observer FB page. Sam has also now posted the McConnell video on his Forward Observer FB page.

    Pray for peace but prepare for war.

    CR, Nov 8-9, 2014; CTT, Apr 24-26, 2015

    #24129
    Profile photo of Palmetto
    Palmetto
    Participant

    Again, the two “eyewitness accounts” seem to corroborate in that Finicum drove off attempting to flee, got stuck in a snowbank, got out of the vehicle and moved toward the FBI.

    If he, as reported, was saying stuff like, “just shoot me” while walking toward the FBI after just having tried to flee an arrest, it shouldn’t be a great surprise that he got shot.

    If these accounts are true and accurate, then this man died an avoidable and unnecessary death.

    Pray for peace but prepare for war.

    CR, Nov 8-9, 2014; CTT, Apr 24-26, 2015

    #24132
    Profile photo of Ragnarok
    ragnarok
    Participant

    Driving off qualifies as resisting arrest NOT a justification for use of lethal force.
    Walking towards an officer shouting “just shoot me” again does NOT justify use of lethal force.
    Even if armed with the weapon holstered.
    Was Lavoy waving a firearm when he was shot? Has anyone heard of less than lethal force first?

    #24133
    Profile photo of Max Velocity
    Max
    Keymaster

    Think we will ever see the body cam footage?

    #24134
    Profile photo of Tommy
    T
    Participant

    If you listen to the 12+ minute recording posted twice in this thread you will discover they were fleeing because they were apparently shot at when they stopped the first time. A person in Ammon’s group tried to explain they were on the way to a meeting with a sheriff. According to the person interviewed, agents with guns were in trees in the area they were stopped. Does this sound like an ambush?

    Tommy

    #24135
    Profile photo of Palmetto
    Palmetto
    Participant

    What I’m saying is if men are giving you commands at gunpoint, you better make wise decisions. When people pick a hill to die on, it better be a damn important hill with no other place to fall back to.

    Now this man has been taken from his family. Did he pick the right hill or could he have better served his cause and his family with different choices?

    Pray for peace but prepare for war.

    CR, Nov 8-9, 2014; CTT, Apr 24-26, 2015

    #24136
    Profile photo of Tommy
    T
    Participant
    #24137
    Profile photo of Joe (G.W.N.S.)
    Joe (G.W.N.S.)
    Moderator

    Obviously there isn’t much new information available. The majority of the information is as I already mentioned decidedly biased.

    The two YouTube videos with Victoria Sharp and Mark McConnell talking about the Arrest and Shooting are very interesting.

    It’s worth noting that most of Mark McConnell’s description is based second hand accounts since he was in a different vehicle and was already in LEO custody when Shooting happened further down the road.

    So any versions the actual shooting from him should be taken with a healthy skepticism.

    The fact that he wasn’t kept in custody does not necessarily mean any collusion with LEO’s on his part, however it also doesn’t preclude that possibility either. Certainly he could still be arrested at a later date despite his assertion to be smarter than others and there being no evidence against him.

    Also the possibility of his release being part of the “Carrot” vice the “Stick” to help encourage others to leave or surrender can not be overlooked.

    Victoria Sharp’s comments I would rate as mostly credible, I have not seen any evidence that she has had any previous encounters with being under small arms fire. Without such inoculation to extreme violence, it would be difficult to fabricate a credible lie so soon after this life changing event.

    However we can not rule out the misinterpretation of some details of the shooting due to the stress of being under fire for the first time.

    My current estimation based on details at this time would be that LaVoy Finicum did not charge the LEO’s in an effort for “suicide by cop,” but was simply “Pissed Off” by circumstances and was voicing this view quite forcefully.

    I would also caution being an armchair kommando about how to properly react to such an encounter. I assure you that thinking rationally is most difficult in such situations. Gunfire, screaming, possible conflicting orders by LEO’s, extreme “Fight/Flight” response all combine to complicate matters and is outside most peoples skill-sets.

    #24138
    Profile photo of Joe (G.W.N.S.)
    Joe (G.W.N.S.)
    Moderator

    Something else to consider about Federal LEO’s; in this case the FBI and various supporting agencies/departments, despite what you may see on TV most of the Agents are not in the loop about most of the information regarding any particular case they are supporting.

    Only a few will be aware of most of the facts of any particular investigation.

    They simply get assigned to do particular tasks in support of the objective. Two maybe assigned to investigate a particular subject, another two maybe tasked with interviewing someone in a surprisingly narrow scope of purpose. The HRT types will only be aware of what they are briefed before a particular task.

    Additionally these investigations have a highly political component to them, part of this involves propaganda to various degrees depending on the nature of the case. In this case the narrative will involve the “demonizing” of the suspects to achieve a sense of the moral high ground. This leads to many within the agency to begin to believe the agency propaganda.

    So the lack of case details because of compartmentalization and the use of propaganda lead to over reaction to suspects by agents.

    I guarantee everyone was briefed on LaVoy Finicum’s statements regarding “not being taken alive,” this combined to assist in his death. There are many key words/phrases that can be used to encourage a “shoot first” response.

    So remember that many of these LEO’s are not evil, just ignorant by design.

    So what’s the point?

    Knowledge about how things are vice how they are supposed to be as well as those that would manipulate you within our own ranks.

    Beware of some of the equally politically motivated “demonizing” by those within the so-called Liberty movement.

    Beware of agendas on both sides!

    #24139
    Profile photo of Joe (G.W.N.S.)
    Joe (G.W.N.S.)
    Moderator

    I’ve talked a lot about agendas in these posts.

    Why?

    Are agendas somehow evil or wrong?

    Of course not, we all have agendas to further our goals and ideals.

    However it is important to try to learn about others agendas to determine how it affects our own. Are others agendas compatible with our beliefs and goals? This must be answered to our satisfaction in order to avoid supporting or getting involved with any cause that is in contradiction to ours.

    We must be vigilant to possible hidden agendas by others.

    Events such as this must be viewed through facts, not rhetoric.

    Remember the Ebola fears, many of the same people that were predicting the end of society are the very ones hyping this situation.

    Beware of getting information from people that are continually predicting doom and gloom that never quite happens.

    We certainly live in perilous times, but avoid the stress that many others offer.

    We have very diverse backgrounds and experience on this Forum that has consistently been correct in it’s analysis and consistent in it’s views and mission.

    Re-read the MVT Vision and Intent and keep focus on this agenda.

    #24140
    Profile photo of First Sergeant
    First Sergeant
    Moderator

    ^^^^^^What he said.

    To add to the info. Here is a blog post of someone who was a the refuge the morning that this happened.

    The Ambush and Murder of Robert “LaVoy” Finicum

    FILO
    Signal out, can you identify.
    Je ne regrette rien...
    Klagt Nicht, Kämpft

    #24141
    Profile photo of Ragnarok
    ragnarok
    Participant

    Check out: “Malheur: The 3,025 FPS Arrest Warrant”
    article by James Wesley Rawles at survivalblog.com
    Notes for Wednesday – January 27, 2016

    #24142
    Profile photo of Palmetto
    Palmetto
    Participant

    Sam Culper is now reporting that he has a credible source who claims the shooting is on video and that Finicum was pulling his revolver when he was shot. Culper is NOT verifying the story but only reporting that the story comes from a credible inside source.

    Pray for peace but prepare for war.

    CR, Nov 8-9, 2014; CTT, Apr 24-26, 2015

    #24143
    Profile photo of Easy
    Eric
    Participant

    Well if it went down like someone said, that they shot at him before he got out of the car, then I can see why he would be drawing his revolver.

    "I have sworn upon the altar of god eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man"

    Thomas Jefferson

    #24145
    Profile photo of Easy
    Eric
    Participant

    This kinda shows what all this is about. The fed, via the BLM has given themselves prominence over every other endeavor on these lands to mine uranium and other minerals, and it is laid out in the documents in this video. Isn’t it what it always comes down to? Follow the money.

    "I have sworn upon the altar of god eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man"

    Thomas Jefferson

    #24146
    Profile photo of Joe (G.W.N.S.)
    Joe (G.W.N.S.)
    Moderator

    Palmetto, do you have a link?

    Looked at all the usual sites and can’t find anything about that.

    Maybe it was taken down?

    #24150
    Profile photo of
    Anonymous

    Yes, there’s video. Oregon State Police / SWAT have it. We should push for its release – original, unedited form. If there was foul play, the local Grant County Sheriff’s Deputies would be screaming bloody murder by now. LaVoy reached for his waistband and that’s it. He said that he would die before he went to prison and he did.

    I’m very disappointed to see folks taking the side of Victoria Sharpe.

    In her account, she says they were gassed numerous times. It would have been CS canisters. Did you ever think about whether or not the officers had gas masks themselves? Five canisters creates a mighty large cloud, folks. And why that was never mentioned in the report?

    There are photos on the scene of officers with NO GAS MASKS on. Directly after the altercation, press were taking photos as the police were still putting their weapons back into their vehicles, and no one is crying or puking from CS gas.

    The press were there. Don’t you think that if the FBI deployed 5x CS canisters that the press would have been able to smell it and put it into their reports? Don’t you think that it would have permeated their clothing? I do. They gassed the shit out of us in basic, did the same to many of you. I still remember the smell and I bet you do, too. It lingers. Consider it. Victoria Sharpe is full of shit. Sorry, folks.

    Further more, 120 or more rounds were pumped into a quad cab pick up and only one person was shot in the arm? I’ve seen a lot of shot up vehicles with 5.56. There ain’t much of nothing left in the inside and the occupants would have wounds from spall or shattered glass.

    WTF!!!!! Listening to the Sharpe account again. She says that they shot at Ryan Payne while his head and hands were out of the vehicle, and that he ducked or they missed, and THEN HE DECIDES TO GET OUT OF THE VEHICLE TO GO TALK TO THEM. WTF, guys. Everyone who’s supporting Victoria Sharpe has a mental deficiency.

    There SO MANY inconsistencies and questions about this account that I just can’t believe it.

    Here’s the newest SITREP for all interested: https://readfomag.com/2016/01/malheur-sitrep-0400l-28-jan-16/

    #24151
    Profile photo of Joe (G.W.N.S.)
    Joe (G.W.N.S.)
    Moderator

    Sam obviously there are videos, as in multiple videos.

    Getting them released? Well that may or may not happen.

    As far as the comment by the eighteen year old girl; “they gased us like five times,” could have been even pepper spray as just one thought.

    The many of the initial details from such a young girl could be easily off after enduring such a traumatic event. She is a “choir girl” not some military vet! This single comment is not in it’s self as damning as you would make it in my estimation.

    “Victoria Sharpe is full of shit.”

    Really Sam?

    We can certainly debate the validity of the limited information available and discuss it, but I think you can do a better analysis than that comment regarding a teenager.

    Anyway, I would be interested in hearing what else you may have heard.

    Edit:

    “Everyone who’s supporting Victoria Sharpe has a mental deficiency.”

    I don’t think it’s about supporting, it’s about discussing events and rating credibility based on admittedly limited data.

    #24152
    Profile photo of
    Anonymous

    Which one is it, GWNS? She’s a young girl who can’t possibly be getting all the details right, therefore she is credible, OR… she’s just a young girl who can’t possibly get getting all the details right, therefore she is not credible?

    Look, this girl has a master nutcase for a mother. Many people at the Refuge know that this girl is an attention seeker.

    She says TWICE (!!!!) in the video that the first shot was directed at Ryan Payne, who then DECIDED TO step out of the vehicle to talk to them. Then says once that he got back into the vehicle, and they drove off and started taking more rounds. The second time, she says that Ryan Payne stayed out of the vehicle at which point he was arrested.

    If his head and hands are out of the vehicle, as she says, why was there a single round fired at him? Shit, why stop at one? Even if it was a ND, what, no sympathetic fire?

    FURTHERMORE — LaVoy is driving this thing. It’s his truck. White Chevy king cab, dually diesel, Arizona plates. So they begin driving off (with LaVoy behind the wheel) and the FBI starts firing at the vehicle and only Ryan Payne is injured in the shoulder? 120 rounds and only one injury??

    Also, I just thought of this. This totally fucks up her story.

    So we have LaVoy driving, they start taking fire. Well, the only thing LaVoy would have driven away from is the initial felony stop. They drove through it until they hit the road block ahead, where they tried to drive around and got stuck.

    So you’re telling me that after driving through the felony stop, where they began taking rounds with only one injury, they attempted to drive around the road block while not taking fire?

    And then LaVoy is able to exit the truck after it’s stuck and everyone is still alive after already driving through a felony stop and attempting to drive around an FBI road block?

    No way. HRT is putting bullets through the heads of each of those passengers in this instance, especially LaVoy because he’s driving when the truck got stuck. She’s lying. Truly, truly, there’s no way that she can be right.

    These pricks can’t release the OSP video soon enough. This buffoonery has gone on too long. The FBI is just fanning the flames of stupidity to allow this speculation to go on as long as it has.

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