January 28, 2016 at 11:55 am #24153
I would rate the basic details as credible, again based on limited data.
Here is one example:
The number of rounds fired?
Again being the first time under fire, some exaggeration would be expected. Most people under fire for the first time even a few rounds will seem like a lot.
Now if you have some other information about her and her families background please provide it.
I guess I just expect details to be not quite as clear cut given the situation she is describing. I imagine how my daughter would describe such when she was that young.
“The FBI is just flanning the flames of stupidity to allow this to go on as long as it has.”
Certainly it is not beyond reason that FBI is trying to provoke more of a response by limiting data to fire up Liberty minded.January 28, 2016 at 12:14 pm #24154Wild BillParticipant
I view this as they have videos and either they show FBI and or LEOs screwed up or they show that they were threatened. If the latter is the case why hold off on releasing them — well just look at what speculation and crazy reporting is taking place. If you want the public on your side you let the conspiracy theories spread then release the videos and now the protesters and their supporters both good and bad are discredited. The reasons for the protest are lost in the “see we are the government here to protect you from all these crazies.”
Time will tell.
CTT 1511, LN 1
“I do believe that, where there is only a choice between cowardice and violence, I would advise violence..." - GandhiJanuary 28, 2016 at 4:37 pm #24162January 28, 2016 at 7:38 pm #24165January 28, 2016 at 8:22 pm #24167HiDesertRatParticipant
Clearly this was an ambush, pure and simple. The Malheur NWR despite its location, was obviously too close for prying eyes, so a more remote location was chosen. A lonely highway out in the middle of bumfuck. Excessive force, death, evidence seized, obfuscation, deceit, outright lies, innuendo, and silence will be the rule of the day. Nothing but another display of arrogance by the ‘authorities’. Why would anyone expect a different result?January 28, 2016 at 8:44 pm #24170January 28, 2016 at 8:47 pm #24171January 28, 2016 at 9:16 pm #24172AnonymousInactive
There’s the video. The vehicle is not riddled with bullet holes. Victoria = still full of shit. She was just trying to incite people.January 28, 2016 at 9:20 pm #24173Ronald BealParticipant
Helicopter view of the shooting:
9:10 minute mark-ish
His hands are up, but then one goes down. Camera not close enough to determine if he is trying to keep hi balance, or reach for a gun
Travelling the world... Home is Nashville, TNJanuary 28, 2016 at 9:23 pm #24174Ronald BealParticipant
Oops, Sam beat me to it by a few minutes
Travelling the world... Home is Nashville, TNJanuary 28, 2016 at 9:56 pm #24175trailmanParticipant
I wrote this on Sams FB page, call me wishful thinking. I see a guy coming out with his hand up then trying to comply with drop your weapon, looking around to figure out where the other guy is that’s yelling at him from behind, then getting shot by the guy behind him. Yeah I get LE has to not take any chances but I think the guy behind him popped him.
CRM, CTT 1501, CP11/15, CTT5/16, FoF, DCH, CLC Opfor, Team Minion
Just remember, Anne Frank was a criminal because the government made her one and she died because she broke the law.January 28, 2016 at 10:06 pm #24177
Ok, this needs to be said, so I’ll say it: Sam, you just lost credibility here on the MVT forum. You just posted the video and used it to continue your attacks on this young woman, Victoria. GWNS has given the measuredd view of her statement and the sorts of dissonance that occur to people when put in a stressful situation such as a firefight.
I just watched the video, once, on my phone screen. I can see the following, clearly:
1) after Finicun is murdered, there are multiple impacts visible into the side glass and windshield of the truck. This goes on for some time. I guess the occupants survived by staying on the floorboards. The vehicle was clearly ‘riddled’ in a way that is unjustifiable.
2) When Finicun gets out of the vehicle, his hands are up. He stumbles around with someone to the front of him, and someone appears to his rear from the trees. He does then mess about with his hands, perhaps trying to free a revolver on his left side, but that is speculation. Both hands reappear empty and in apparent confusion. He is then shot. My impression from simply watching was that he tried to surrender but then saw the intent of the two agents / officers and saw the elephant. He knew.
3) The roadblock was sited on a curve so that they only saw it last minute, and they appear to have attempted to avoid crashing into it, and perhaps avoid an officer / agent stood to the left side of the roadblock.
From a quick initial viewing, none of the Killing or shooting was justified. It appears to corroborate much of what was in Victorias recorded phone statement. If this had happened in Iraq, or anywhere else, troops would be going to jail.
None of this was justified.January 28, 2016 at 10:16 pm #24178EricParticipant
That is some fucked up, punk ass, trigger happy bullshit. I wonder if they thought killing one of these guys would “scare” everyone else into submission. Doesn’t scare me, just pisses me right the fuck off.
"I have sworn upon the altar of god eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man"
Thomas JeffersonJanuary 28, 2016 at 10:28 pm #24179AnonymousInactive
When he’s shot and falls down, he has his right hand reaching into his jacket, where he has a cross-draw holster — the one that he always wore. His hand is in his jacket when he falls down because he was reaching for a firearm. He does NOT have his arms up when he is shot and falls down. Watch the video again and see what happens, not just what you want to see, Max. LaVoy — just as he said numerous times — is reaching for his firearm when he’s shot and killed. Watch it again. His arms are not up in the air.January 28, 2016 at 10:34 pm #24180AnonymousInactive
He REPEATEDLY said that he was going to die before going to prison. That’s what happened. That’s why he left out of his vehicle, that’s why he was reaching into his jacket, and that’s why he’s dead. He knew what he was doing, and in the past three weeks repeatedly said exactly what would happen.January 28, 2016 at 10:38 pm #24181
First, hopefully the vehicle in trail of the white truck had a dashcam with audio and this is released at some point.
The lack of audio and so so video resolution makes it difficult to interpret some of the data.
As he swerved to get around roadblock he may have steered to avoid LEO that is almost hit. We also do not know if vehicle received fire at any other point prior to getting stuck.
When Finicun hands initially drop we are currently unaware of:
what commands are being giving.
is there any gunfire happening, regardless of whether it’s directed at Finicun.
with Finicun’s hands being in the air for as long as they are, it seems unlikely that he would suddenly go for a gun. This is however not a conclusive observation. A different angle or even further in depth study of current video enhanced by software may help.
As noted by Max the vehicle is certainly receiving some incoming fire not to mention some distraction devices noted by the multiple flashes.
The surrounding snow and white vehicle and insufficient resolution prevents seeing bullet holes in vehicle. There are several puffs of snow visible from rounds hitting low. A frame by frame analysis will give a more complete picture. For every visible evidence of a bullet strike it would seem probably that many were not seen. Again not conclusive at this point.
Thanks to all that posted this video, it is certainly a good step in learning the truth.
More to follow.January 28, 2016 at 10:38 pm #24182
It appears Sam, that you are the only one here with an agenda and an axe to grind. You also keep deleting my comment from your FB page, where you are curently being destroyed (oops, you just removed the whole post LOL) I’m a professional, and I see what is clearly before me in the video. Why no comment about the multiple round impacts into the glass? Didn’t you see them? Have you never seen that happen before?
You came here with a clearly emotional axe to grind and an agenda to push to discredit any accusation that this was not a legitimate action by law enforcement. Why? Given all the accusations against various peole, perhaps this could be pushed back onto you? You appear to be an apologist and have not taken a rational assessment of the information that is coming in about this incident.
If you continue on this route, you will be removed. We will return this thread to its purpose, which is news collation and rational assessment of the situation.January 28, 2016 at 10:45 pm #24183AnonymousInactive
My only axe to grind is for the truth of what really happened.
Could this be wrongful killing? Absolutely. We can’t hear the audio, however, if his hand is in his jacket, then it certainly gives law enforcement the appearance that they are justified in shooting him. Whether or not he was already shot and reaching for his wound, we can’t tell. Either way, his hand is in his jacket. We know how LE treats actions like that.January 28, 2016 at 10:48 pm #24184AnonymousInactive
As for Facebook, if we want to get into disagreement and make things personal, then we can do that one on one. The post has not been deleted. It’s still there, Max.
The LaVoy I met would not have been taken into custody and he wasn’t. I guess that’s my broader point. LaVoy knew what he was doing when he got out of his vehicle and he knew how it was going to end. Whether he was muredered or killed while going for his gun, LaVoy repeatedly expressed in no uncertain terms that he wouldn’t be taken alive. Cumulatively, that give me a reason to believe that he was going to draw his weapon. That’s my take. Be well.
Max adds: Sam, last chance. You are being moderated. This is not your forum and I will not permit you to try and make it personal with me. My comments are due to your poor analysis that I have seen posted here, which I find disappointing.
P.s. it looks like the post may be there on your FB site again, afyer FB tokd me it was deleted, with all the comments removed. Slippery, eh?January 28, 2016 at 10:50 pm #24185EricParticipant
I am a member of several forums, and let me testify, that the shills are out in force. You cannot believe the amount of people who are celebrating this man’s death, claiming it is a justified shoot, saying the guy was a lunatic, etc, etc. Makes me sick to my stomach.
"I have sworn upon the altar of god eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man"
Thomas JeffersonJanuary 28, 2016 at 10:51 pm #24186
“He REPEATEDLY said that he was going to die before going to prison.”
This is certainly a possibility, but to not dig deeper to eliminate or discover other possibilities would be shortsighted.
Many people make the “won’t take me alive” statement, few actually follow through particularly those without significant backgrounds in violent encounters.
Does anyone know if Finicun has such a background in true life and death violent encounters?
To be clear, I am not dismissing the possibility of Finicun making good on his promise, just looking at all possibilities.January 28, 2016 at 10:57 pm #24187
Clarification: this reply was to Sam above.
It doesn’t appear so. It appears that you have made up your mind. How do you know what he was thinking? You don’t know, as GWNS has pointed out, the specifics of what was happening on the ground. In fact, this appears to corroborate fairly closely with what I recall of Victorias statement.
However, moving on. I see so much of this BS and it’s all what I term ‘inside the box.’ So, now we have to bicker about furtive movements and exactly whether or not he should have been murdered. Or, more precisely: was he murdered in a way that the murderer’s can justify and thus get away with it.
KrisAnne Hall had more useful comment on this. None of this actually needed to happen. Not this ambush disguised as a traffic stop. Step back and look at the bigger picture. None of them needed to die on that road, and it is the fault of the FBI leadership that the operation went down in this way.
As a Constitutional American Patriot, you have less rights and more chancd of being killed out of hand, than Hajji does in the Middle East. As a professional soldier, we never behaved this way on operations. Finicun would not have been shot, all the way up until he had a weapon out and was bringing it into the aim. Judgment and calm professionalism would have been employed, and he would have been captured. I don’t give a fuck about ‘officer safety’ and all these ridiculous excuses for being justified to kill people.January 28, 2016 at 11:03 pm #24188PalmettoParticipant
The situation was of Finicum’s creation. He is dead because of choices he made. Everyone else is alive. He chose to run from the stop. He chose to run a barricade. He chose to get out of his vehicle and act erratically. If he truly was trying to comply at the point he was shot, he had already put himself in an exceptionally deadly position with the choices and actions he had already made. This stuff isn’t a game – you don’t get do-overs when you make bad choices.
There are all sorts of ways to interpret the video but the one that seems to best fit the evidence is the one Sam has given, added to which there is the testimony of his source. We can be pretty darn certain there are additional video and audio recordings of this incident. It’s all going to come out in the wash.
Pray for peace but prepare for war.
CR, Nov 8-9, 2014; CTT, Apr 24-26, 2015January 28, 2016 at 11:08 pm #24189ragnarokParticipant
LaVoy was well within the 30 feet range of a police Taser. They didn’t not Have to kill him.January 28, 2016 at 11:11 pm #24190
Way to go with the keyboard quarterbacking of his actions in an extremely stressful situation palmetto! Do we know if shots were already fired, causing the vehicle to intially take off? He just nearly hit a roadblock and crashed into a snowbank, possibly with incoming. Shit. Stop. Please.
This is just more ‘in the box thinking’ in line with ‘lawful orders’ and ‘furtive movement’ BS.
There is a lot we don’t know from the video. I know that to me, there is an immediate question of the legitiamcy of his killing, both in the micro and macro sense. There are also a number of round impacts in and around the truck.January 28, 2016 at 11:18 pm #24191
Posted by Brad Moran in comments to Sam’s post on his FB page which is back up after my comments were deleted and FB told me the post was no longer there:
“Ive watched it on a larger monitor, instead of my phone. The officer that first draws on him as Lavoy is coming out with his hands up is already firing. You can see his arm recoil, and you can see a tiny muzzle flash as well. Lavoy seems to react to being shot, not drawing a weapon. Also, they weren’t trying to run the road block; that road block was on a curve, and there isn’t any line of sight til. The brake light comes on about 5 seconds before they make it to the road block area, he might have been just trying to avoid doing a head on. Again, we need audio. This video will be examined frame by frame I am guessing and enhanced if possible, and that should reveal any muzzle flash I think I am seeing plus the recoil of the officers arm.”January 28, 2016 at 11:25 pm #24192
“FBI-OSP statement published Wednesday morning, three shots were fired during the stop”
A cursory viewing shows at least three impacts on and around Finicun’s truck based on white puffs alone (besides other indicators which were ignored during this overview). This doesn’t include shots that killed Finicun.
Incompetence or a lie?
Certainly not the truth.January 28, 2016 at 11:31 pm #24193PalmettoParticipant
There is a bigger lesson here that people need to understand. This isn’t a damn game. People can quibble about “legal killing” and studying the instant replay and complaining to the ref about following the rules. The bottom line is this man is still dead. He ain’t coming back.
Are some things worth dying for? Sure. But you better be damn sure that the hill you choose is important enough to be the one to die on. When people start fucking around with guns they better be damn clear about what they are doing and why they are doing it. You don’t get a do-over when someone pulls your ticket for posturing and bravado. Don’t be rash. Don’t be foolish. Be dead sure about what you are doing or be dead.
That is the simple point I am trying to make.
Pray for peace but prepare for war.
CR, Nov 8-9, 2014; CTT, Apr 24-26, 2015January 28, 2016 at 11:35 pm #24194January 28, 2016 at 11:48 pm #24195
The Battle for Rightful Liberty is not a game either.
“When people start fucking around with guns they better be damn clear about what they are doing and why they are doing it.”
I wouldn’t characterize choosing to be armed; my God Given Right, in this way.
Armed Protest or even the next step of Armed Civil Disobedience is not justification to be executed!
It is certainly a possibly, but not justification.
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