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Calorie use Post Event

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  • #22269
    Profile photo of Joe (G.W.N.S.)
    Joe (G.W.N.S.)
    Moderator

    A thought occurred to me when reading the MRE Thread.

    On my last trip to Afghanistan I found myself eating more along the lines of a teenager rather than someone approaching military retirement.

    Sure many will have an opportunity to lose those last few pounds, however when factoring in food storage consider how many calories you may need to maintain a healthy weight. Particularly if you foresee conducting patrols/homestead duties etc…

    Many purchased prepacked food storage units have ridiculously low calorie counts.

    This of course is anecdotal and just a friendly reminder. There is plenty of information available for those that seek it.

    #22271
    Profile photo of Jane
    jane
    Participant

    Many prepackaged emergency food rations are also of poor nutritional value — they are loaded with high glycemic carbs like wheat, rice, etc. Mountain House is notorious for this – expensive peasant food.

    #22276
    Profile photo of Robert
    Robert
    Participant

    Take a closer look at Mt. House ingredients, I’ve been involved in the food storage industry since 1989 including owning and running a commercial cannery for 2 years in the 90’s- OFD/Mt. House is known for quality ingredients. They are also a large military supplier as well, something most of these johnny come lately food storage companies- Wise, etc. cannot claim.

    To the OP-
    Great post! 13 calories per lb. of body weight per day to “maintain.” That’s for a not very active person, and it goes up to around 17 calories per lb. per day for high activity.

    Example- 180 lb. man needs 2,340 per day to maintain.

    Take in 500 less calories per day and you’ll lose 1 lb. per week- DOING NOTHING
    Take in 1,000 less calories than your number, and you’ll lose 2 lbs. per week, DOING NOTHING.

    And yes it really is as simple as that math. I dropped 40 lbs. in 4 months to get in a lower weight class a few years ago. I did my normal exercise but I focused on the caloric intake and the numbers and made it work out.

    It’s good to do this to know what your body can and cannot take. Early on at around 200’ish (with fat reserves) I could go out at 4pm and run a mile after only having about 800 or so calories for the day. Later when I got to crackhead skinny for me 171 I would get just a bit dizzy by noon if my caloric intake wasn’t up to at least 500 or so.

    To know the effects on YOUR BODY of greatly reduced caloric intake is important in a survival context. Can you really finish that run? Can you really hold that knuckle pushup position for 5 minutes, dig that trench, tote firewood, work in the garden, etc. on reduced calories?

    Most of us don’t need as much as we think we do or have been programmed to think we do. This concept that “everyone” needs 3000 calories a day has lead to a lot of fat gamers that sit around taking in too many calories.

    It’s different for everyone-

    Your weight in lbs. X 13 = amount of calories you need per day.

    I found it to be pretty darn accurate. Found it originally in one of Greg Jackson’s books, one of the premier UFC trainers.

    www.jrhenterprises.com
    RMP, TC3, NODF, CRCD 6/14, CP 9/14. NODF, Land Nav, 6/15. Rifleman Challenge 9/15- Vanguard. FOFtactics 3/16, 10/16, 11/16, 6/17,11/17 CTT, 6/15, 11/16, , LRMC-1 9/17 GA Mobile CTT and DA 10/16, GA mobile DCH 3/18, HEAT1 3/18 Alum weekend 8/18, Opfor CLC 10/18, DA 11/18 CQBC 12/18

    #22278
    Profile photo of Jane
    jane
    Participant

    Robert, I did not say that Mountain House was not good quality. In fact, it is very high quality. I said that most of it is of poor nutritional value. I was really referring to the individual backpacker entrees, not the long-term storage #10 cans with single ingredients like beef, chicken or eggs. In fact, I have quite a bit of Mountain House in my own long-term storage (along with a lot of dehydrated and canned stuff that I made myself).

    The problem is the high glycemic filler — like pasta (wheat), rice and such. People are not designed to eat that crap. Our ancestors didn’t have all the grotesque obesity, diabetes, heart disease problems that people do today. What changed? People started eating a lot of high glycemic processed foods.

    Look at the Inuit in the arctic. They never ate *any* starches, or even vegetables in many cases. Their diet was primarily high in saturated fat (seal and whale blubber), and moderate protein. Yet, the were thin and had no incidence of heart disease, diabetes, etc. Now they have all those ailments. What changed? They were introduced to modern processed high-glycemic foods.

    You should not have to count calories. You should just eat when you’re hungry. The problem with doing that is if you eat the high glycemic stuff, you have insulin highs and lows, which means that you’re artificially hungry when you come off an insulin high… and you eat more than you should.

    #22280
    Profile photo of Brian from Georgia
    Brian from Georgia
    Participant

    The 13 calories per lb is about right. I take in 14cal/lb with PT 4-5 times per week and I maintain weight.

    If you want to be humbled on how long your food stores will last, calculate calories and don’t just guess. Make a spreadsheet with total calories for everything you have. Then divide that by the caloric need for each person in your household, assuming more manual labor. I bet your “year’s supply” will look more like 3-4 months.

    Canned vegetables are great for fiber, vitamin and minerals but they don’t have many calories. You need fat for caloric density: canned meats, freeze dried meats, nuts, peanut butter, oils.

    Covert those foyer and hall closets for a little extra storage space.

    3-4 Aug 2013 CRCD, 2-6 Aug 2014 CRCD/Patrol, 30 Sep 2016 Run n Gun, 1-2 Oct 2016 FoF, 3-4 March 2018 DCH alumni
    Team Coyote

    #22283
    Profile photo of Jane
    jane
    Participant

    Great point about peanut butter and oils! Peanut (and other nut butters) are calorie dense, high fat and lasts a long time without refrigeration. Great survival food.

    Same with coconut oil, which has the added advantage of being high in medium chain triglycerides. I have a friend who flies around the Alaska bush with his girlfriend every summer for months. They subsist solely on dried lentils, a jar of coconut oil, some seasoning and whatever fish they catch in the various lakes and streams they visit.

    #22288
    Profile photo of Joe (G.W.N.S.)
    Joe (G.W.N.S.)
    Moderator

    I think it’s a fair assumption that in a “post event” situation we will lack much in the way of nutrition and have to settle for the best calories we can find/store.

    Using and storing a good multivitamin may have value.

    #22289
    Profile photo of Jane
    jane
    Participant

    Well it is pretty easy to store plastic jars of peanut butter, coconut oil, bags of lentils and some canned meats. Cheap too, much cheaper than expensive processed freeze dried foods full of high glycemic filler!

    #22293
    Profile photo of Joe (G.W.N.S.)
    Joe (G.W.N.S.)
    Moderator

    I purposely don’t get involved in discussions of what is the proper diet for others. I believe there are a variety of things that work and it’s not a one size fits all situation.

    Most of us have sufficient experience of what works for us and if something isn’t working there is no shortage of information to try.

    What is extremely important is that you have something stored, six months to a year of at least staples is not too difficult to acquire whether by purchasing a few items spread out over time or one big purchase.

    Make sure you actually eat what you store, try at least a couple of weeks to see how it works for you and anyone else you are preparing for.

    During an “Event” is not the time to find out you can’t stomach what you have stored.

    #22294
    Profile photo of Robert
    Robert
    Participant

    Few people can truly do the whole no carbs/”carbs are the enemy” deal for long.

    For true long term storage, it would get prohibitively expensive to ONLY store proteins, as they are the most expensive category in LTS food.

    It’s not a realistic comparison to compare people sitting on their arses most of the time now a days to post PAW environment. I know just living the way we have lived at our retreat for 17 years now, survival = WORK, yep that 4 letter word. And I don’t mean word processing ;) To worry about carbs in that sort of environment where you will be doing a substantially higher amount of physical labor PLUS patrolling, standing guard, etc. I think isn’t an issue UNLESS you have some sort of diabetic condition pre-event. In which case, I’m guessing in a lot (NOT ALL) circumstances the loss of excess weight will certainly help that condition post event.

    We went with very little income for several years when we first moved here due to a major industry downturn (post Y2k) and we literally lived off our food storage for many years, supplementing with fresh veg from the gardens, fresh fruit from the orchards, rabbit, chicken and deer from the yard. I know we can live off of what we have stored because we actually have, not we researched it, or tried it for a weekend ;)

    YMMV if you have some crazy dietary issues, etc. And yes, children will eat rice, lentils, whole wheat bread, etc. they just have to be taught to like it versus pop tarts and misc. crap. I have a very healthy teenager as proof of this :)

    The bottom line is to DO SOMETHING when it comes to storage food. Ideally everyone serious about this sort of thing would be able to make it at least a year without resupply.

    As patriots, we should all understand that food has been and will continue to be used as a WEAPON by totalitarian regimes.

    www.jrhenterprises.com
    RMP, TC3, NODF, CRCD 6/14, CP 9/14. NODF, Land Nav, 6/15. Rifleman Challenge 9/15- Vanguard. FOFtactics 3/16, 10/16, 11/16, 6/17,11/17 CTT, 6/15, 11/16, , LRMC-1 9/17 GA Mobile CTT and DA 10/16, GA mobile DCH 3/18, HEAT1 3/18 Alum weekend 8/18, Opfor CLC 10/18, DA 11/18 CQBC 12/18

    #22303
    Profile photo of Jane
    jane
    Participant

    Few people can truly do the whole no carbs/”carbs are the enemy” deal for long.

    For true long term storage, it would get prohibitively expensive to ONLY store proteins, as they are the most expensive category in LTS food.

    Robert, I think you totally misunderstand the carbs thing…. it is NOT all carbs killing our health with greatly increased rates of obesity, heart disease, diabetes and other ailments, it is

      high glycemic carbs

    (sugars and starches). You need to add saturated fats to your long term storage – that is what you should be eating in place of these filler high glycemic carbs (not extra protein). Things like eggs, coconut oil, butter, etc are all good.

    Coconut oil is probably the easiest for long term storage – it is cheap in the supermarket and has a long shelf life.

    It is actually easy to maintain a low carb lifestyle – because you aren’t hungry all the time. People that can’t do it have it all wrong – they incorrectly assume you are supposed to replace the high glycemic carbs with protein, which is not true. It is saturated fat that you want.

    Anyway, I don’t mean to be lecturing people here on a proper diet…. but it really pisses me off when I go walking down the street or into a Walmart and see the huge explosion of land whales in our society. They are obese and unhealthy in large part because they are brainwashed by the upside down government food pyramid and big ag.

    #22306
    Profile photo of Robert
    Robert
    Participant

    Jane- no problem, I get the fats thing. And I’m definitely NOT a worshiper of the fda charts, etc.

    My point remains that I think you will find after some time that these very items (fats and oils) are the hardest items to store LONG TERM. I capitalized LONG TERM because so many people are new now a days and to many “long term” means 2 months ;) That’s not what I’m talking about.

    Here’s the boiled down bottom line for most people on food storage-

    1. Many will do nothing in that regard.
    2. Most of the rest will do a little bit here and there, with a “fire and forget” type approach.

    Their IS a small percentage that will actively manage their food storage in a way where very little is missed to rotation, blah blah blah and those types can get away with short term food products, etc. Also, typically when you see those types talking about rotating short term products (grocery store wet packed cans for example) they are talking about storing a few months at best for 1-2 people.

    When you get into using shorter term products wherein you are putting up say a few years worth of food for say 6 people, the rotation issues for the shorter term products typically are hard to keep up with for a QUANTITY (key word) of short term packed food products.

    This part DOES have to be factored in for most people.

    Finally COST has been and always will be an issue for all of us. The same preppers that would have 5 ARs for two people (1 per hand plus a spare) typically won’t spend $1,000. on food storage. So herein also is where you see most people going with a bulk supply of grains and adding on from there.

    To get into a basic food supply packed yourself for less than a dollar a day is pretty good. In my experience working with literally thousands of survivalists for almost 30 years now, MOST people rarely go much further than that with food storage. SHOULD they? OF COURSE. WILL they? Not often.

    That unfortunately is the reality of it. Hence another reason you see a preponderance of people using bulk grains and legumes for the bulk of their food storage. And given the #1 and #2. listed above, I’m glad to see people get a bulk of grains, legumes, etc. instead of maybe just a week or two of other items.

    In a perfect world, everyone would be serious enough about this to live off their food regularly to know what exactly it does to their body, make adjustments over time and replace and rotate as necessary. But in a perfect world everyone into this sort of thing would also train regularly, not be couch potatoes, etc.

    So Jane, I’m not per say “disagreeing” with you, we are just looking at it from different angles and time frames. :)

    www.jrhenterprises.com
    RMP, TC3, NODF, CRCD 6/14, CP 9/14. NODF, Land Nav, 6/15. Rifleman Challenge 9/15- Vanguard. FOFtactics 3/16, 10/16, 11/16, 6/17,11/17 CTT, 6/15, 11/16, , LRMC-1 9/17 GA Mobile CTT and DA 10/16, GA mobile DCH 3/18, HEAT1 3/18 Alum weekend 8/18, Opfor CLC 10/18, DA 11/18 CQBC 12/18

    #22310
    Profile photo of Jane
    jane
    Participant

    Robert — you bring up a great point – most people have hardly any emergency food storage at all (i.e. a couple of days, or a week at most). Some of my neighbors are like that. I will feed them like cattle with my stored grains (which I don’t eat anymore).

    Virgin coconut oil can last 5 years unrefrigerated – not 25 years like freeze dried. But assuming you rotate stock, this is fine. If you don’t want to rotate, then you still have a selection of fats in dehydrated heavy cream, butter, cheese, freeze dried eggs, etc. You can also get canned butter and cheese.

    FYI, canned stuff often lasts long past its expiration date with proper storage. I have a friend who is a real cheapskate, and occasionally eats old C-Rats. Gross to you and me, but he eats it with no ill effect.

    #22315
    Profile photo of Joe (G.W.N.S.)
    Joe (G.W.N.S.)
    Moderator

    …but it really pisses me off when I go walking down the street or into a Walmart and see the huge explosion of land whales in our society.

    No worries, that will change very rapidly in almost any “Event” scenario! :yes:

    I’m glad to see people get a bulk of grains, legumes, etc. instead of maybe just a week or two of other items.

    In most situations that is what I recommend to many starting out if budget is a concern. An initial emergency food reserve can be achieved at modest cost and will provide that initial back up if an “Event” occurs before a proper food storage program can be achieved.

    Even if budget is not a concern this is a good way to begin process of modifying a diet based on long term food storage.

    #22317
    Profile photo of Jane
    jane
    Participant

    …but it really pisses me off when I go walking down the street or into a Walmart and see the huge explosion of land whales in our society.

    No worries, that will change very rapidly in almost any “Event” scenario! :yes:

    Yes…. this, and those people drugged up on meds, scares me. How will they react when the “just in time” supply chain is down, and the stores are closed? I have one neighbor who is not only very obese, but she is drugged up on fentanyl for Fibromyalgia (another ailment that is likely related to high glycemic diet).

    In a collapse, these people will be extremely desperate. What to do about them?

    #22318
    Profile photo of Joe (G.W.N.S.)
    Joe (G.W.N.S.)
    Moderator

    In a collapse, these people will be extremely desperate. What to do about them?

    Without many prescription meds many if not most will die off fairly rapidly. From diabetics in need of insulin who can’t survive long without (there are some solutions) to people who will be mentally unstable without meds which will be compounded by the stress of an “Event.”

    Overall I do not see these as being anymore desperate than most who haven’t prepared. Food alone will be sufficient reason for many to kill for. So many will kill for things that are not even a necessity.

    It will be very bad thing to experience. We need the training Max provides, but I highly stress the need for the “boring” preparations.

    There are those planning on using skill at arms to take what you have, I am not talking traditional criminals, but a breed of so called Prepers that want power and control and believe “the ends justify the means!”

    The message is clear, be prepared!

    #22339
    Profile photo of Max Velocity
    Max
    Keymaster

    Note: This is not Max’s response/content. Just a glitch from the transition to subscription.

    My family and I are one of those that try to keep a months worth of food (or better) in the pantry and on our shelves. There are a number of MREs floating around the house as well. We have actively tried to store greater amounts of food, but with the Army moving us every few years, we have to nearly start from scratch each time. It gets more expensive than the more fun stuff, like guns.
    Does anyone have any suggestions on compact food stores that we can transport? I know the freeze dried food is temperature sensitive and we do not have the luxury of a basement (the MREs are compact enough that a months worth fit in a couple large duffels under a bed).

    #22340
    Profile photo of Joe (G.W.N.S.)
    Joe (G.W.N.S.)
    Moderator

    …but with the Army moving us every few years…

    Assuming you can stay in CONUS, what I did was a DITY Move (Do-it-Yourself Move) most of the time, although twice due to time constraints I did a combination move.

    With a DITY Move they pay you something like 80% of what they pay a Contracted Move which is based on your weight allowance by paygrade.

    A Partial DITY Move can work well as long as your not exceeding your weight allowance with the contracted move portion.

    This also works well if you know you will exceed weight allowance and will prevent paying government at the contracted over weight portion.

    The DOD saves money by since they pay you less than a Mover and traditionally I made a couple thousand with a DITY Move.

    Assuming you have a good idea of your weight (previous moves) a Partial DITY Move works to move items you don’t want contractor touching (guns, ammo, preps, food).

    For example if your a E-7, PCS with Dependents has around a 12,500 pound allowance. Let’s say you send 9,375 lbs (75%) of your allowance Contracted leaving 3,125 lbs for the DITY portion. In my experience you can easily move more than that for what they pay you. Remember you have to request an advance DITY payment for up front expenses.

    Note: they have a new name for DITY Moves but it is the same thing.

    #22341
    Profile photo of Joe (G.W.N.S.)
    Joe (G.W.N.S.)
    Moderator

    I know the freeze dried food is temperature sensitive and we do not have the luxury of a basement (the MREs are compact enough that a months worth fit in a couple large duffels under a bed).

    All storage food is temperature sensitive, even MRE’s.

    Get creative with storage, a raised platform for bed, ditch the box spring and incorporate head board etc into design. This provides much additional space.

    When I lived in Base housing a few times, I had a storage rental unit with 24 hour access to keep gun safes with weapons and ammo in, which is why I disliked Base Housing, but some areas were cost prohibitive for housing.

    Not for storage, but for emergency relocation I also built an enclosed trailer large enough to put all supplies in with a rack for kayaks on its roof. It also had slightly more ground clearance for modest off road capability.

    #22394
    Profile photo of Max Velocity
    Max
    Keymaster

    Note: This is not Max’s response/content. Just a glitch from the transition to subscription.

    Thanks for the ideas. Those will make it quite a bit easier to store food out of sight. :good:

    #22402
    Profile photo of Joe (G.W.N.S.)
    Joe (G.W.N.S.)
    Moderator

    Another brief point…

    …storage rental unit with 24 hour access to keep gun safes with weapons and ammo in…

    Generally speaking I am not a fan of rental units, but it was the best option under the circumstances.

    In order to further secure gun safes I rented the type with a small size roll up door (normal door size), got a section of steel plate wider than door and bolted safes to plate so they couldn’t be easily removed.

    Thanks for the ideas.

    Glad it’s helpful.

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