November 12, 2015 at 5:10 pm #22451
My biggest worry is protection on my Steak Assets post-SHTF. we purposefully moved 80+ miles from the people that will become the next refugees. that like and know how to hunt … if they flow up here 100% of my time will be patrol and over watch of the herd.
Anyone have any ideas to keep the cows safe when everyone else is starving?November 12, 2015 at 5:26 pm #22452SeanTModerator
Guard dogs?November 12, 2015 at 5:37 pm #22455AndrewParticipant
How close is the pasture to the house? How easy is it for people to see them from the road? Find the easiest access points from the road or look for the area where a vehicle might be screened from obvious view. I would consider sensors, if they have the range to where you can monitor them. ie Dakota Alert.
Does cactus grow in your area? If it does I would plant some on the fenceline wherever it looks like people could access the pasture easily. Let your fenceline foilage grow. Quit trimming it so that it’s pretty. Some official looking signs warning of anthrax might slow someone down. Quarantine looking signs.
Most dangerous thing out there will be those who think they can hunt. They probably won’t have time to butcher a cow completely and you more than likely may end up with cattle with gun shot wounds.
Not a good situation.November 12, 2015 at 9:27 pm #22461
What area of the US are you in? How many head of cattle? Approximate size of property? If larger property how is it fenced and type of fencing? What’s the visibility from whatever your central operations would be (house, barn, LP/OP)?
Bringing them into a more secure paddock type area at night and having someone play “shepherd” by day. A few herding type dogs may be of some value to aid in this (number of dogs dependent on how many head). Remembering that depending on type of “Event” it’s not just people, but even wild dogs for example that could be a problem. The dogs would help reduce the number of people required in this role.
This brings to the forefront the manpower requirements “Post Event.”
Could probably be little more specific with more information.November 13, 2015 at 7:44 am #22467DiznNCParticipant
That’s a tough one dude. You may have to drive the herd to a more remote pasture area if possible. Maybe even stay up there.
Depending on what happens, cattle may have to be abandoned altogether. Perhaps they can survive a winter on their own. Round up what’s left.
Will this asset tie you down unnecessarily? May be best to diversify into freeze-dried and other long-term storage food.
I’m sure you have thought of all this; just thinking out loud.
CTT 1505, NODF 1505, CP 1503, LN 1, RC II, RiflemanNovember 13, 2015 at 9:20 am #22469
OK the deal … North Arkansas Ozarks, 280 acres 3 main pastures with a road running across the North side crossing over the land 1/2 way through and running on the South side to the river. West side pasture is hay in summer and winter grazing/feeding – mostly open and can be watched. We move them to the East side during the summer to let the hay grow. hills, trees, and rock. I have a few over watch positions (i need to improve) that cover all entry and exit points with max range @ 725 yrds – 308 should be OK. Maybe this will justify my 50cal purchase.
I will have to put up a scenario like Max and let everyone war game this bad boy.November 13, 2015 at 9:32 am #22470
Oh, funny thing all my “city” buddies (I sure everyone here has these guys in their area) said “If it happens I will just move to the hills and live off the land”. Like they are the only ones thinking this. these are the guys I a worried about and the main reason for the tribe building in my Area. to the south of me is a large Amish Community. The good part is survival in grid down situations and education that will benefit me. The Bad, easy target – pacifist – I see them getting over ran quickly and needing my resources for protection. The the rest is older retried people with hobby farms. biggest worry for me is reaching out to them and having a nephew take a shot at me while trying to help.
Issue: Me, my wife, and 5 Girls (16 to 4). the wife is so-so on the preps. my girls help me patrol starting at age 8 and weapons training at 10. all have their own AR and chest rig. I finally have my plate carrier for Lvl 3+ and will out fit my wife next. I am also the “rally point” for my family which only gains me a Brother (not well scripted for this, but tough and can shoot) and my Father 68 USMC – great for over watch.
Planned preps this spring: Solar and Wind tower for generate power for a HAM repeater for my handhelds for reach out farther into town (12 miles out).November 13, 2015 at 12:26 pm #22476Brian from GeorgiaParticipant
It takes some time to field dress and quarter up a poached cow. Enough time that you will be able to react after hearing the shot.
Heck, let them do the work for you before you take care of business. Then , it won’t be just steak for supper.
“Long pig, it’s what’s for dinner”
3-4 Aug 2013 CRCD, 2-6 Aug 2014 CRCD/Patrol, 30 Sep 2016 Run n Gun, 1-2 Oct 2016 FoF, 3-4 March 2018 DCH alumni
Team CoyoteNovember 13, 2015 at 1:18 pm #22477
Sounds like a nice setup. The Ozarks are a nice area!
Without more manpower your going to be hard pressed to secure that much area or even a portion of it (you probably realized that), dogs could certainly help. Of course they require some resources to support and basic training. Moving cattle to a smaller central location at night would seem the best bet, however depending on situation those involved in the daily move would require over watch security.
Remember there are quiet ways to kill cattle, it certainly wouldn’t require any hunting methods since in many cases you can just walk up to them.
Having some prior preparations to save as much meat as possible if one is killed would be a good idea. A word of warning: shooting one and waiting to ambush people that respond is one of many dangerous possibilities.
Beyond the scope of your original question, but make sure you you conduct an honest assessment of how many you can truly support without anything but local support (local is a potentially much smaller area than what most think of today).
…biggest worry for me is reaching out to them and having a nephew take a shot at me while trying to help.
Ideally making some contact now is ideal (not necessarily to discuss security or an “Event,” just knowing the neighbors), however touching base sooner rather than later after an “Event” should help minimize threat to you making contact. The idea being don’t wait until chaos reigns to attempt contact.November 13, 2015 at 1:59 pm #22480
We do get out and “get to know” the neighbors. I also joined the local VFD – major connections. I totally recommend anyone in a rural area to join their VFD and rub shoulders with them. I know who to trust and who to watch out for – remember your OPSEC.November 13, 2015 at 2:33 pm #22482
We do get out and “get to know” the neighbors. I also joined the local VFD – major connections.
Great example too, by establishing ourselves in a positive light within our communities is just the ticket to real success in a “Event” scenario.November 14, 2015 at 6:28 pm #22517D CloseModerator
Having become a member of a group that has some similar concerns, building tribe and getting trained must be the number one priority. Patrolling may be the only effective method to protect your heard from being decimated. Your assessment of likely threats in your Area of Operations and Area of Interest will dictate how you position your force. You cannot be everywhere at once. Intelligence Preparation of the Community needs to take place yesterday.
As GWNS noted, the manning issue is pressing. Ideas we have considered: recruit people now to buy in to the herd by purchasing cattle shares. They now have skin in the game. Give preference to shooters or other talented potential tribe members. Start planning now where they could homestead in an emergency. My rough estimation was three squads were needed to conduct round the clock patrolling ops at a much smaller area than your piece. You need at least one group out, another manning some fixed positions around your area and another resting reserve as a quick reaction force. Maybe your “squad” is two people at first, with a total of six shooters minimum. You couldn’t do much with that but better than nothing. So 27 guys seems like a lot but it really depends on your threat. Is the Leroy Jenkins gang capable of fielding 50 to come get your meat? If they can, 27 doesn’t seem like enough.
That road needs to be watched and manned with a TCP. People need rest and other chores need doing. The really dangerous guys aren’t going to come running across the field. They are going to sit and watch for a good while. To find someone like that, you would need an active patrol out there, beating the brush, every day. You need OPs out where you are worried about infiltrators and obstacles across likely avenues of approach and they need to be covered by fire. If you have been to patrol class, you already know it is tiring work. If there are small gangs of 5 or 10 guys roaming on the perimeter, they are going to need to see more than two guys or your team is toast at some point.
1) MVT Combat Patrol Class
2) Sam Culper book and class: SHTF Intelligence
4) Collection and analysis of current and projected threats
The only easy day was yesterdayNovember 14, 2015 at 7:57 pm #22523MaxKeymaster
I’m in a similar boat with my family, but on a smaller scale.
Definitely agree with getting in contact with neighbors. Help them out with stuff when you can. I think that a lot of farmers will stick together and watch each others backs. Depending on how far of a collapse… you can detain and restrain cattle rustlers until LE arrives. But if they present a significant threat.. then you have to handle that as well.
Idk about in Arkansas, but in Missouri its a Class B felony. So no one takes that lightly. And they definitely won’t in a time of crisis.
As for wargaming it.. figure out the most likely avenues of approach. Plan out how you can handle that. Then tell your family how you would handle that. And let them think of another way in.
My plan is to rotate the cattle a little differently than my usual and take them farther out during the day and closer at night. Of course this is labor intensive… and the amount of time you can devote to cattle will depend on what else is going on. Don’t put all your eggs in one basket. Diversify a bit on some stuff that you can keep close to home. If shit is that far downhill… then you will lose some cattle. Hopefully the experience isn’t too costly.November 16, 2015 at 8:24 am #22534RobertParticipant
Sounds like a crappy little survival fiction story I had going at one point called “Cow Battles.” A group heavy on training and weapons but over burdened with extra people (more mouths to feed) strikes a deal with local cattle man to give protection to his big herd.
RMP, TC3, NODF, CRCD 6/14, CP 9/14. NODF, Land Nav, 6/15. Rifleman Challenge 9/15- Vanguard. FOFtactics 3/16, 10/16, 11/16, 6/17,11/17 CTT, 6/15, 11/16, , LRMC-1 9/17 GA Mobile CTT and DA 10/16, GA mobile DCH 3/18, HEAT1 3/18 Alum weekend 8/18, Opfor CLC 10/18, DA 11/18 CQBC 12/18, 5/19November 16, 2015 at 9:17 am #22535
Thanks for all the insight … I plan to attend MVT this spring. Funny thing about my tribe is that getting down to brass tacks – I am it. Oh, I have people that think they are shooters and yes they are great hunters, but they are not built for movement (read: typical fat redneck). I cannot get them to realize the need for PT to the point I am starting to give up on them.
Few years ago I was reading journals from the Civil war (my fun time past time) and they all spoke about as the people and armies moved through the woods were stripped of all the game. I see this happening here in the first 3-6 months if we get an influx of “refugees” from the cities. I am 3 hours from Memphis Tn. and 4 from Little Rock AR. every summer and hunting season I see vehicles from from these locations. (i see these people as the first wave). It will take little to no time for them to eat the game and start to turn on the cattle.
So now I am back to 100% cattle, chicken, and pig protection. I do have a 6nth old cane corso and looking to adopt and 3yr old malinois – maybe i could breed them and make a crazed up guard dog patrol. Spend mornings in the tactical garden (I call it that to make it sound more cool). afternoons sleep and evenings patrol and check & set trip style devises and fall asleep again in the hole on over watch.
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