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Change upper change everything???

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This topic contains 22 replies, has 17 voices, and was last updated by Profile photo of Robert Robert 1 year, 10 months ago.

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  • #42524
    Profile photo of Robert
    Robert
    Participant

    Changed out the upper on a CAR15 to a fancy dancy cool daddy railed up new style one in order to put an Aimpoint PRO and an OTAL-C laser on it.

    Fired maybe 40 rounds through it right after changing it out, had a handful of jams but didn’t pay them much mind.

    Brought it over to the range Thursday night to zero the OTAL and got about 2 rounds at a time before it would FTE. Set aside and worked with another rifle.

    Went back Friday, lubed the beejezus out of the rifle after cleaning the BCG really well. I remembered the “drippin…” thread so I really slathered the oil on- in the manner that the first round or two fired you end up with oil residue on your glasses.

    29 rounds in a magazine, first one jammed (see pic), every other round (28) in that magazine had to be manually ejected. More than a few had to be “mortared” (now I know what that means, thankfully watching AR guys struggle with that drill at CTT 3 times now I think I have an idea of what it is).

    Changed back to the original upper, lubed it to “drippin” status and fired about 200 rounds yesterday without any issues.

    WTH over? How does changing the upper (same BCG used in both) cause those problems? The failure to eject should be a BC issue as the extractor is part of the BC.

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    www.jrhenterprises.com
    RMP, TC3, NODF, CRCD 6/14, CP 9/14. NODF, Land Nav, 6/15. Rifleman Challenge 9/15- Vanguard. FOFtactics 3/16, 10/16, 11/16, 6/17,11/17 CTT, 6/15, 11/16, , LRMC-1 9/17 GA Mobile CTT and DA 10/16, GA mobile DCH 3/18, HEAT1 3/18 Alum weekend 8/18, Opfor CLC 10/18, DA 11/18 CQBC 12/18

    #42527
    Profile photo of RonW
    farmer
    Participant

    Was the same magazine used for both uppers?

    farmer

    RonW

    #42528
    Profile photo of RonW
    farmer
    Participant

    devils advocate– was it a quality upper assembly or a frankengun assembly?

    if frankengun, who put it together?

    farmer

    RonW

    #42530
    Profile photo of SeanT
    SeanT
    Moderator

    is it a .223 chamber and you firing 5.56?

    #42532
    Profile photo of Robert
    Robert
    Participant

    Bought the upper from CDNN for $300.

    It’s a 5.56 upper which I was told could do both fine.

    It happened with both 5.56 and .223 on the railed upper (upper in pic)

    The original upper shot 5.56, .223 both 62 gr and 55gr yesterday without a problem.

    www.jrhenterprises.com
    RMP, TC3, NODF, CRCD 6/14, CP 9/14. NODF, Land Nav, 6/15. Rifleman Challenge 9/15- Vanguard. FOFtactics 3/16, 10/16, 11/16, 6/17,11/17 CTT, 6/15, 11/16, , LRMC-1 9/17 GA Mobile CTT and DA 10/16, GA mobile DCH 3/18, HEAT1 3/18 Alum weekend 8/18, Opfor CLC 10/18, DA 11/18 CQBC 12/18

    #42533
    Profile photo of DuaneH
    DuaneH
    Participant

    Question
    I am on my phone so cant really tell, but in the second pic is that a linear dent in receiver extension (buffer tube)?

    If so, was it there before mortaring?

    Appleseed.
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    #42534
    Profile photo of SeanT
    SeanT
    Moderator

    ^^^^

    That looks like a spray paint line on a bigger screen

    #42536
    Profile photo of
    Anonymous

    Possible, Under-sized Chamber……very common, caused by excessive wear of the finish reamer.

    For the record the best, of the Three chamber choices is the .223 Wylde Chamber. It incorporates the very best qualities of the .223 Remington and the 5.56X45 chambers.

    #42538
    Profile photo of Mike Q
    Mike Q
    Participant

    Maybe your chamber is out of spec? When the round fires the brass expands and maybe getting stuck in the chamber. Is the barrel chrome lined?

    There never seems to be enough time to do it right, but there is always enough time to do it twice.

    CRM Sept. 2014, CTT 1505, CTT July 2015, RC-Rifleman 1502, CP Nov. 2015, FoF March 2016, CCW May 2016, FoF Oct. 2016, FoF Nov. 2016, CLC April 2017, FoF Nov. 2017, Alumni weekend Aug. 2018, CQB Dec. 2018

    #42539
    Profile photo of JustARandomGuy
    JustARandomGuy
    Participant

    …Changed back to the original upper, lubed it to “drippin” status and fired about 200 rounds yesterday without any issues.

    Well, there’s your problem then- something wrong with the upper.
    I was about to ask if you’d tried a new bolt, or at least a new extractor but… that result seems pretty definitive.

    WTH over? How does changing the upper (same BCG used in both) cause those problems? The failure to eject should be a BC issue as the extractor is part of the BC.

    And technically it should- I had a bad FTE issue with a rifle once, turned out to simply be a bad extractor.I mean, it was bad enough where the spent case would eject about halfway, the bolt would pick up a new round to chamber, and smash them both together halfway into the chamber. It sucked, but I never had to mortar the thing to get the rounds out, even as smashed together as they were in there.
    IMHO, that says something else is going on in there…
    Bad chamber, poorly installed gas system or something, maybe all the above? :unsure:

    Not to beat a dead horse, but with the “such-a-deal-I’ll-make-you” companies… you never really know what you’re getting. And I mean that both from a parts quality, *and* assembly POV (especially since they’ve also got a low-profile gas block on there)….
    None of CDNN’s uppers list anything specific aside from the rail…
    That’s usually a red flag. :unsure:

    "Time come Kimosabe, when good men must wear masks."
    ~Tanto

    #42543
    Profile photo of wheelsee
    wheelsee
    Participant

    Have to echo Duane’s concern (looks suspicious when pic is enlarged)…….be sure to collapse the butt stock before mortaring (helps prevent buffer tube damage, per the genius you-tube)

    Which is heavier - a soldier's pack or a slave's chains? Napoleon

    Strength, Honor. Maximus (Gladiator)

    If you tolerate evil, you yourself are evil.
    Col Hugo Martinez, Commander Search Bloc

    William, in The Republic - CRS/CTT 2017, HEAT 2/CQB/FonF 2018, DCH 2018

    #42544
    Profile photo of Dennis W
    Dennis W
    Participant

    Robert
    Bring it to the training next weekend and we’ll can try a couple things.
    Dennis

    MTV Alumni - N. Central Florida
    Sept 27 – Oct 03 2014 TC3-CTT-CP + NODF
    RC1, RC2, Rifleman 2015
    Sept 2016 Run & Gun/ CQB
    Oct 2016 FOF

    #42546
    Profile photo of Hello Kitty (Craig)
    hellokitty
    Participant

    My diagnosis based on not looking at it up close.
    1. Magazine issue- i am assuming your using same mags for both uppers so rule that out.
    3. Ammo- same for both so rule out.
    4. BCG not ejecting- use same one in both so rule out.
    5. I cant imagine the chamber being out of spec. That is so rare and im assuming this is a reputable manufacturer not junk.

    That leaves me to think the gas block is not installed correctly. Most likely mis aligned. which will cause ejection issues since not enogh gas is cycling.

    But im not there to check the gas block alignment.

    CTT 1502, NODF 1502, CP 1503, RC 002- Rifleman, FoF x 2, Run and Gun, RS/CTT, CLC, CQBC, Heat 1

    Craig S.

    #42548
    Profile photo of Robert
    Robert
    Participant

    No rounds stuck in the chamber as in needing a rod to beat out. Had that as the final straw with both of the other ARs I owned back in the day.

    I’ll check the buffer tube, but yes it’s all been painted.

    As original, it runs great and that’s what I’ll use to help get my son up to speed on them for if he does go the military route.

    Anyone want to buy an upper cheap? LOL It’s plenty of rail space for tactical cowbells and everything!

    www.jrhenterprises.com
    RMP, TC3, NODF, CRCD 6/14, CP 9/14. NODF, Land Nav, 6/15. Rifleman Challenge 9/15- Vanguard. FOFtactics 3/16, 10/16, 11/16, 6/17,11/17 CTT, 6/15, 11/16, , LRMC-1 9/17 GA Mobile CTT and DA 10/16, GA mobile DCH 3/18, HEAT1 3/18 Alum weekend 8/18, Opfor CLC 10/18, DA 11/18 CQBC 12/18

    #42549
    Profile photo of JeffSags
    JeffSags
    Participant

    I’m not really familiar with cdnn. Just a quick look though, I can’t see any “name brands.” Might be a poor quality upper. $300 sounds kinda cheap…

    CRCD AUG 13, CRCD MAR 14, CP AUG 14, CR MAR 15, Shivworks ECQC, MVT RIFLEMAN, CTT AUG 16, CQBC

    #42559

    Cdnn..no guarantee of what quality u will get. I vote gas block prob or chamber out of spec

    CRCD/CP April 2014, CP August 2014, RC1,
    CTT/CP June/July 2015, Run n Gun/CQB/FoF 2016, DA Georgia 2017, DCH Georgia 2018

    #42561
    Profile photo of Rowland
    Rowland
    Participant

    I’m going with gas system. I’ve seen some improperly drilled gas ports that didn’t line up with the gas block. A little gets through….but not enough. If it was chamber, I doubt it would cycle at all.

    Many of us are hunting mice while lions devour the land. -Leonard Ravenhill

    #42562
    Profile photo of First Sergeant
    First Sergeant
    Moderator

    Most of the guys gave you good advice already.

    Who made the upper? Out of spec chambers are far more common than most people realize.

    What ammo were you using?

    Just because it says it is chambered for 5.56 doesn’t mean it is. There are quite a few companies that say they are but they are not.

    Feed ramps may not be cut properly causing the problem with the round not feeding in that first pic.

    It may not be gassed properly due to gas ports being drilled wrong.

    I know people get tired of me saying this but I will keep repeating it. Buy quality. Right now it is a buyers market. Check out this link. Colt OEM1 for $712.68. Add your own furniture.

    https://grabagun.com/colt-firearms-firearms-13.html

    FILO
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    Klagt Nicht, Kämpft

    #42575
    Profile photo of Jake
    Weber
    Participant

    If you are using underpowered ammo your gas system may not cycle properly. So just because you can run .223 ammo in a 5.56 chamber, that doesn’t mean it will create high enough pressure to cycle the gas system due to the size of the gas port. For example, Knights Armament specifically says to use only full powered 5.56 ammo in their guns in order to ensure proper cycling of the gas system. I’ve never heard of the brand of your upper but 1st Serg says this all the time, buy a quality name brand upper/lower/complete rifle and you won’t have to worry about these problems. Oh and feed your AR good ammo.

    My mom said I could be anything I wanted to be when I grew up. So I chose to be a man.

    #42577
    Profile photo of cynikal
    cynikal
    Participant

    I just corrected a CDNN Upper for a guy. Gas block was a set screw type and just hand tight. the barrel was not even dimpled. so we dimpled the barrel, realigned the gas tube correctly, and used some loctite on the threads of the set screws … no more problems. I am not a big fan of CDNN i have seen another with bolt issues, it has been a long time since I have seen any of their stuff.

    #42582
    Profile photo of Free Chicken Dinner
    RRS
    Participant

    Youse gots yerself go to war rifles and then you gots yer play toys, don’t confuse the two.

    May I gently suggest that anyone not show up at a training where people paid good money and their time and turn it into unfucking a frankengun session while other people look upon you.

    I bought a RRA 20″ SS heavy match upper complete with chromed BCG and so far on the lower with carbine buffer and stock it has been a square range shootin machine. I still would not bring it to a SUT training session except as spare.

    Rant off

    Tactical training for Liberty, Fraternity, Excellence

    #42837
    Profile photo of Robert
    Robert
    Participant

    Youse gots yerself go to war rifles and then you gots yer play toys, don’t confuse the two.

    May I gently suggest that anyone not show up at a training where people paid good money and their time and turn it into unfucking a frankengun session while other people look upon you.

    Rant off

    As an AK guy, I can’t agree more with that!!! I remember my first CRCD class at the fire support part of the squad attack having two of the ARs in our fire team go down and the whole fire support being left to the lone working AR and my AK. People forget how important to real life a working all the time every time rifle truly is. That sort of drill will (should) hammer that home to anyone. :good:

    www.jrhenterprises.com
    RMP, TC3, NODF, CRCD 6/14, CP 9/14. NODF, Land Nav, 6/15. Rifleman Challenge 9/15- Vanguard. FOFtactics 3/16, 10/16, 11/16, 6/17,11/17 CTT, 6/15, 11/16, , LRMC-1 9/17 GA Mobile CTT and DA 10/16, GA mobile DCH 3/18, HEAT1 3/18 Alum weekend 8/18, Opfor CLC 10/18, DA 11/18 CQBC 12/18

    #42838
    Profile photo of Robert
    Robert
    Participant

    An Alumni looked at the upper and it’s evidently total shiite- gas tube off, etc. He mentioned that being an easy fix so he got a free upper.

    I have no patience for things that don’t work in this regard. I would have never truly trusted that part again, period.

    We will run the rifle as is for getting my son familiar with that platform for if he does go to the military. We will continue to run good ammo through it and it’s up to about 1,000 rounds through it without problems. Considering my experience with two other name brand, brand new ARs from 20 years ago, I’ve very happy with it as is.

    Thanks for all the responses. :good:

    www.jrhenterprises.com
    RMP, TC3, NODF, CRCD 6/14, CP 9/14. NODF, Land Nav, 6/15. Rifleman Challenge 9/15- Vanguard. FOFtactics 3/16, 10/16, 11/16, 6/17,11/17 CTT, 6/15, 11/16, , LRMC-1 9/17 GA Mobile CTT and DA 10/16, GA mobile DCH 3/18, HEAT1 3/18 Alum weekend 8/18, Opfor CLC 10/18, DA 11/18 CQBC 12/18

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