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CP Training Prep

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  • #19061
    Profile photo of DiznNC
    DiznNC
    Participant

    Someone was asking about this stuff in another thread so I will go into it here.

    Basically you are going to take what you learned in CTT, as far as weapons manip, fire and maneuver, and SUT, and learn how to apply that to an actual patrol. Here are some things that will help you get ready, and maximize your training experience.

    Review and practice what you learned at CTT. Get your weapons and gear re-configured as necessary and take it to the range to re-confirm zero and practice weapons manip. Don’t fumble stuff you should have locked down from CTT. Be ready to learn new stuff.

    The key difference is now you are adding a patrol ruck. You won’t carry/use it the whole time, but for the 24-hr FTX, it’s important to have this piece sorted out. I recommend a good 45 liter ruck, such as the Karrimor or equivalent. This size is just about right for our purposes, both in training, and for real. Any smaller will not fit the average sleep system well; any larger and you will be tempted to carry much more crap than you really need.

    First the 3L water bladder goes in the back pocket, with the drinking hose rigged along the non-firing shoulder and secured with elastic, cord, etc. Next, I use the GI “Willy Peter” (water-proof) bag, which lines the entire bag. I know civilians like the individual stuff sacks for everything, and they do work great for regular hiking when nobody is trying to kill you. But for tactical work, the great big bloody bag approach works best. Because you will be stuffing things in and out of there, in the middle of the night, when it’s pitch black. So to reduce the fiddle factor, having one big bag is the bomb. Now, take your sleep system, which should consist of a some kind of bivy sack, or poncho, and a light bag, or poncho liner, and a self-inflating mat, if required. This should already be assembled, with the mat inside the bivy or poncho. Roll it all up together, ready for instant deployment. Stuff it in the bottom. Don’t be too picky about it; just stuff it in there and fill all the nooks and crannies of the bag bottom. Next comes your shelter. You need a MVT shield or Brit basha, or equivalent. The 80″ x 90″ size is important because you will be hooching up as buddy teams. The GI Poncho isn’t big enough for this purpose. Pre-attach bungees at each corner. Use 5-6 foot bungees with metal hooks on the end. Squeeze these together on the grommet or strap so the bungees will stay attached. A spare bungee to hold up the top is nice to have. Roll this up and stuff it on top of your sleep system. Now take your food bag, cook stove, cup and spork, in stuff sacks and place them on top of the basha. Next comes any spare clothing, which is seasonal and mission-dependent. Lets say you have some spare socks, a spare shirt, and some kind of windproof smock. Along with maybe a watch cap and some gloves for sentry duty. Close up the WP bag, and close up the ruck. Hopefully you have some kind of pouch on your top lid. Here you want a zip lock bag with baby wipes, foot powder, washcloth, toothbrush and paste, TP, etc. Doesn’t hurt to have a red lens headlamp either. This is all you really need for the FTX. For an actual mission, you would add 4-6 mags, in pouches on the sides, along with an e-tool, either pouched up around back, or carried internally. Along with any mission-essential items required.

    Now when you set up camp, open up the ruck, dump out the clothing and cook set. Grab the sleep system and set it aside. Grab the basha and lay it out on your position. String the bungees up. Lay out your sleep system. Put the cook set and clothing back in the ruck. When it’s time, pull out the cook set and make chow. Do it when you can, not when you’re hungry. You need chow for the night ops. Put back in the bottom of the ruck. Lay out clothes for night ops on sleep system. You will be doing these things in between standing watch with your buddy. Conduct night patrol. Return and stand watch. Use spare clothing as a pillow. Before stand-to, remove cook set from ruck. Strike basha and stuff in ruck. Roll up sleep system, stuff in ruck. Remove night clothing, stuff in ruck. Ruck should be fully packed at this point, with you in full kit. Stand to. Then stand watch, cook breakfast. You will need chow for morning ops.

    So as I hope you can see, you are managing all this stuff in different conditions from a civilian hiker, who can lolly-gag and take his time doing whatever he wants. You on the other hand are pressed for time and can’t spend a lot of time fiddling with your gear, especially when you have to stand-to in the morning.

    So some key points from this scenario. Having the bungees pre-attached and ready to go is extremely important, especially for morning stand-to. Using 550 cord is very fiddly.

    Having a sleep system already rigged together and ready to deploy is also important. Using a GI WP bag to stuff it in and out of will save you much time and bullshit. Note: on actual ops, you will roll it up and stuff it in your ruck, ready to move out, when you stand sentry duty. The basha stays up and is struck as necessary, if there’s time. So you really want a system where the sleep system is readily stuffable into the ruck, in low light conditions. You may also notice the order of things stuffed in there may vary. This is just par for the course, in tactical ops.

    Hope this helps explain a little better how a military patrol base works, versus the civilian hiker on a camp out. And how this effects your gear selection and set up.

    Again, this is the optimal set up. It is not absolutely required by any means. Show up with what you got, and train. That’s the important thing. You can survive 24 hours of most anything, even if your kit is lacking. But, if you have the time and money, this is what I’d recommend.

    CTT 1505, NODF 1505, CP 1503, LN 1, RC II, Rifleman

    #19062
    Profile photo of Rob
    busyguyintville
    Participant

    Thanks Diz, this is a very, very useful description that I’ve never seen replicated despite having perused a LOT of sites, articles and resources.

    MVT Rifleman. TC3/RMP/CRCD Alumni.
    Southern Illinois Area

    #19063
    Profile photo of DiznNC
    DiznNC
    Participant

    Funny thing is I am basically just re-gurgitating what Max says, but yeah, it bears repeating.

    CTT 1505, NODF 1505, CP 1503, LN 1, RC II, Rifleman

    #19066
    Profile photo of riflemaniv
    riflemaniv
    Participant

    Diz,
    Great read. What type of self inflating mat are you talking about? I have a Thermarest I use for backpacking but I don’t think it would fold down small enough to fit inside my bivy bag then into my pack. Usually I have it lashed to the outside of my pack. I will have to try it out this weekend.

    CTT1504, NODF 1504, CP 1610

    #19072
    Profile photo of DiznNC
    DiznNC
    Participant

    I use a REI half-mat. If I have padding from hips to shoulders I’m a happy camper. My legs can take care of themselves, especially when you keep your boots on. It doesn’t add much bulk and sure makes the difference on cold, hard ground.

    CTT 1505, NODF 1505, CP 1503, LN 1, RC II, Rifleman

    #19075
    Profile photo of First Sergeant
    First Sergeant
    Moderator

    Diz,
    Great read. What type of self inflating mat are you talking about? I have a Thermarest I use for backpacking but I don’t think it would fold down small enough to fit inside my bivy bag then into my pack. Usually I have it lashed to the outside of my pack. I will have to try it out this weekend.

    I know Diz answered you, but just to give a different perspective, I use a full size Thermarest. I have been using one for years. You might be surprised just how small you can get it with some practice.

    FILO
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    Klagt Nicht, Kämpft

    #19110
    Profile photo of SeanT
    SeanT
    Moderator

    1st Sgt.
    Got a pic?

    #19126
    Profile photo of First Sergeant
    First Sergeant
    Moderator

    1st Sgt.
    Got a pic?

    Laid out or folded up to pack?

    FILO
    Signal out, can you identify.
    Je ne regrette rien...
    Klagt Nicht, Kämpft

    #19127
    Profile photo of SeanT
    SeanT
    Moderator

    How you pack it. I have a thermarest and its a good pad but not the smallest thing going.

    #19131
    Profile photo of
    Anonymous

    Diz, great info!

    Thanks

    #19219
    Profile photo of First Sergeant
    First Sergeant
    Moderator

    How you pack it. I have a thermarest and its a good pad but not the smallest thing going.

    Sean,

    Sorry it has taken so long, sometimes life gets in the way of doing other things.

    Here are the pics. I put a 20 oz Coke bottle next to it for reference. For me, it gets small enough. I bought this mat in 1995 before my deployment to Bosnia and have used it all over the world in some pretty fucked up terrain. That is one of the reasons that I recommend Thermarest. They are damn near bomb proof.

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    FILO
    Signal out, can you identify.
    Je ne regrette rien...
    Klagt Nicht, Kämpft

    #19226
    Profile photo of SeanT
    SeanT
    Moderator

    As stupid as it sounds, I never gave thought to folding that thing….Like Riflemaniv my usage was backpacking style load out. No matter what, they are good sleeping pads.

    #22789
    Profile photo of tango
    tango
    Participant

    Any particular gear tips for a mid-summer class? I’ve been in WV for a whole summer before and I know what that heat/humidity feels like.

    Baptême du feu
    L'appel du vide

    #22900
    Profile photo of tango
    tango
    Participant

    Also came across this source for Basha’s in multiple sizes. Experiences? Thoughts?

    http://shop.0241tactical.com/Basha-Shelter-Tarpualin-X-Large-Tarps-TARPS.htm

    Baptême du feu
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    #22906
    Profile photo of Trailman
    trailman
    Participant

    Also came across this source for Basha’s in multiple sizes. Experiences? Thoughts?

    http://shop.0241tactical.com/Basha-Shelter-Tarpualin-X-Large-Tarps-TARPS.htm

    http://www.velsyst.com/store/197/111/Basha.html

    CRM, CTT 1501, CP11/15, CTT5/16, FoF, DCH, CLC Opfor, Team Minion

    Just remember, Anne Frank was a criminal because the government made her one and she died because she broke the law.

    #22938
    Profile photo of tango
    tango
    Participant

    http://www.velsyst.com/store/197/111/Basha.html

    Thanks for the link. I was looking at the specs and realized why Diz is recommending the surplus Basha or MVT shield. It’s particularly for the anti-IR treatmeant on both of them.

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    #23218
    Profile photo of Stephen Arthur jr
    Themagicbusguy
    Participant

    Diz, where do you carry your fighting load? After I loaded my bag as described it was full. I run a belt system and drop leg shingle, and I’m pretty certain I’m not getting much more in my bag.

    Once more into the breach

    #23219
    Profile photo of Stephen Arthur jr
    Themagicbusguy
    Participant

    If I wear my battle belt, than I’m not able to use the hip belt on my pack. Sounds like I need a chest rig for my fighting load.

    Once more into the breach

    #23220
    Profile photo of Mike Q
    Mike Q
    Participant

    The intent when using a battle belt is to NOT use a tall pack with a hip belt. You want to use a short pack which will sit on the back of your battle belt. In other words your battle belt will act as your hip belt for your pack. Make sense?

    There never seems to be enough time to do it right, but there is always enough time to do it twice.

    CRM Sept. 2014, CTT 1505, CTT July 2015, RC-Rifleman 1502, CP Nov. 2015, FoF March 2016, CCW May 2016, FoF Oct. 2016, FoF Nov. 2016, CLC April 2017, FoF Nov. 2017, Alumni weekend Aug. 2018, CQB Dec. 2018

    #23223
    Profile photo of Stephen Arthur jr
    Themagicbusguy
    Participant

    That might be the case if you are six feet plus tall, but I’m 5’6″, and a 45 ltr karrimor pack hangs down far enough that your suggestion won’t work for me. I’ve tried several setups and I am unable to carry the pack on my butt pack, the bag just rides too high.

    Once more into the breach

    #23225
    Profile photo of Mike Q
    Mike Q
    Participant

    I’m 5′-11″ with a fairly long torso, so I can see that being a problem. The only other comment I have about the battle belt with ruck combo is that the belt is supposed to ride at your hip level, not your waist level. Assuming you aren’t already doing so that will gain you about 2″…

    90% of the guys I see who go the chest rig route also still use a “light” style belt setup… Most of which don’t put anything around the back side of the belt. Mostly the sides of the belt. There are two threads which go into depth about these issues if you haven’t already reviewed them. One about the “light” battle belt/chest rig combo and the other specifically about ruck interaction with you battle rattle setup. But honestly every time I go and train I adjust my rig. Hell if you go back and read through the blog posts Max himself is still changing his setup. I have come to the conclusion we are all gear whores to a certain level and are never finished moving stuff around…

    There never seems to be enough time to do it right, but there is always enough time to do it twice.

    CRM Sept. 2014, CTT 1505, CTT July 2015, RC-Rifleman 1502, CP Nov. 2015, FoF March 2016, CCW May 2016, FoF Oct. 2016, FoF Nov. 2016, CLC April 2017, FoF Nov. 2017, Alumni weekend Aug. 2018, CQB Dec. 2018

    #23229
    Profile photo of DiznNC
    DiznNC
    Participant

    TMBG:

    OK, what you need to do is run “ranger” or shoulder straps on the belt (I like Vickers or BFG), and rig it a little lower than usual, which will allow for the ruck. This was common practice among Ranger and recon types back in my day. The belt is worn slightly looser to allow for this (that is, not tight against the hips). Also, make sure the shoulder straps on the ruck are adjusted so it rides as high as possible. Pull the top load stabilizer straps as tight as they will go. Then cinch the shoulder straps up to clear the belt kit. Look at some pics of Brit belt kit (on ebay). You may need to go to their pouches, which sit flush with the top of the belt, versus USGI which sit higher, and therefor interfere with the ruck. They also use two separate sustainment pouches on back instead of one buttpack. And yeah, I use a chest rig so there’s more room on the belt line (for pistol gear n such if you’re running it).

    CTT 1505, NODF 1505, CP 1503, LN 1, RC II, Rifleman

    #23845
    Profile photo of tango
    tango
    Participant

    Would somebody mind pointing me in the direction of a good RGB headlamp? I started looking around and the only 2 decent ones I find are the one from Cabela’s and the Petzl Tactikka. Recent amazon reviews for the Petzl are quite bad saying the quality went down the tubes.

    Baptême du feu
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    #23847
    Profile photo of Trailman
    trailman
    Participant

    I have one of these and it’s held up so far
    http://www.skdtac.com/Princeton-Tec-Quad-Tactical-p/pcn.162.htm?1=1&CartID=0

    CRM, CTT 1501, CP11/15, CTT5/16, FoF, DCH, CLC Opfor, Team Minion

    Just remember, Anne Frank was a criminal because the government made her one and she died because she broke the law.

    #23850
    Profile photo of tango
    tango
    Participant

    The lens changing seems less-than-ideal to me.

    Here’s the Cabela’s one. It actually doesn’t turn on the white light until you purposely hold down the button for 3 seconds.
    http://www.cabelas.com/product/CABELAS-XPG-RGB-II/1716920.uts

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    #23851
    Profile photo of Trailman
    trailman
    Participant

    The colored lens slides up and down, its seems pretty durable to me and there is no mistaking, no counting clicks.

    CRM, CTT 1501, CP11/15, CTT5/16, FoF, DCH, CLC Opfor, Team Minion

    Just remember, Anne Frank was a criminal because the government made her one and she died because she broke the law.

    #23856
    Profile photo of First Sergeant
    First Sergeant
    Moderator

    I have used a Petzl Tactikka+ for years. Recently(last 7months or so) got a new one because the elastic in the head band finally gave up the ghost. Some may have had issues, but I have never had any issues at all. And it is a hell of a lot easier to slide the colored lens one way or the other than having to remember to count clicks or seconds. When I am out in the woods, I always keep it on the colored lens. I used one for both of my tours in Afghanistan.

    One thing to remember, while red lens was the color to use for years, we found out during OIF and OEF that blue light works better. The reason? You can’t see blood under red lens at night. It washes out. Blue lens allows you to see it. Same goes for maps, if it is not marked “Red Light Readable” it washes out the contour lines.

    FILO
    Signal out, can you identify.
    Je ne regrette rien...
    Klagt Nicht, Kämpft

    #23863
    Profile photo of tango
    tango
    Participant

    So my concern of having to be dynamic with the color changes is unnecessary? If you guys are just keeping a single colored lens in there all the time then I would definitely be more inclined to look at those.

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    #23864
    Profile photo of First Sergeant
    First Sergeant
    Moderator

    So my concern of having to be dynamic with the color changes is unnecessary? If you guys are just keeping a single colored lens in there all the time then I would definitely be more inclined to look at those.

    I keep the same colored lens in all the time. I never change it. No reason to. If I am somewhere that I can use white light, just slide the colored lens out of the way.

    FILO
    Signal out, can you identify.
    Je ne regrette rien...
    Klagt Nicht, Kämpft

    #23894
    Profile photo of tango
    tango
    Participant

    Exactly the help I needed guys. Thanks.

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