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Florida Self Defense Shooting

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This topic contains 28 replies, has 13 voices, and was last updated by Profile photo of Joe (G.W.N.S.) Joe (G.W.N.S.) 6 months ago.

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  • #60327
    Profile photo of JohnnyMac
    JohnnyMac
    Participant

    Recently, a Florida man started an argument with a woman sitting in a vehicle with her children parked in a handicapped parking space while her husband was in the convenience store. Husband exits and pushes the man, who falls to the ground. Man on the ground uses lethal force against assailant, assailant succumbs to his wound(s). Shooter has a history of starting arguments with others at location and has threatened others in the past.

    See for yourself:

    Currently, sheriff is not making an arrest. We’ll see what happens.

    A few things to think about (there’s much more than I list):
    -was the deceased presenting an imminent risk of serious bodily harm?
    -do you know what legal rights your state grants?
    -was it worth it? (interpret from whatever perspectives you choose)
    -do you train firing from non-standard positions?
    -do you practice managing unknown contacts and escalation/de-escalation?

    I’ll withhold my opinion for now.

    #60333
    Profile photo of Roadkill
    Roadkill
    Participant

    It still pays to be polite, even with assholes. My take, shooter murderd the guy in the shorts. I am involved in de escalation training as a role player. I get to be the asshole. A former LEO buddy of mine started a company when he retired. He was concerned with CPL people jumping right to the gun, rather than having some type of use of force continuum training. Sometimes you jump right to guns, most of the time not. You need to be trained for both.
    In this case I’m not talking about the shooter, but the pusher. Instead of being macho he most likely could have got in the car and drove away.
    Don’t get sucked in to an altercation where the asshole goes asocial.

    RS/CTT Nov 16
    HEAT1 Aug18

    #60334
    Profile photo of First Sergeant
    First Sergeant
    Moderator

    Florida Stand Your Ground Law. Shooter was not liable. He was attacked and defended himself.

    Doesn’t matter what he did before this. All that matters is what happened in that snapshot in time.

    Maybe of the dumbasses wouldn’t have parked in a handicapped parking spot, this could have all been avoided.

    If the woman would have kept her window rolled up, the shooter may have walked off. If the the dead guy hadn’t come out and shoved the other guy, he wouldn’t have gotten shot.

    I’d bet money that the guy that got shot has assaulted other people in the past and got away with it.

    There are several things here that could have kept it from getting to the point it did.

    An armed society is a polite society.

    FILO
    Signal out, can you identify.
    Je ne regrette rien...
    Klagt Nicht, Kämpft

    #60336
    Profile photo of Greg W
    gregw
    Participant

    I am not versed on florida law and nor am I an attorney, but most SYG laws still require “threat of death or severe bodily injury” as determined by a “reasonable person”. I am not sure this meets this standard especially when it would ultimately be determined by a jury.

    Even though the sheriff refuses to arrest doesn’t mean the district attorney cannot bring charges.

    #60337
    Profile photo of Joe (G.W.N.S.)
    Joe (G.W.N.S.)
    Moderator

    A Florida man fatally shot another over a parking space — and it was legal. Here’s why.

    Article:

    A 47-year-old man who shot and killed someone over a parking space dispute will not face criminal charges, Pinellas County Sheriff Bob Gualtieri announced during a Friday afternoon press conference.

    The Thursday afternoon incident falls under Florida’s “Stand Your Ground” law, he said. Investigators say Michael Drejka fatally shot Markeis McGlockton, 28, after he was shoved to the ground. The altercation was captured on video.

    “People have a right to stand their grand and they have a right to defend themselves when they believe they’re in harm,” Gualtieri said.

    A “pretty significant yelling match” broke out when Drejka arrived at the Circle A Food Store at 1201 Sunset Point Rd. in Clearwater and saw that McGlockton’s girlfriend, 24-year-old Brittany Jacobs, had illegally parked her car in a handicap spot.

    “There was no physical violence,” said Gualtieri. “There was no threats, but it was a disturbance that they were yelling at each other and he was complaining about her parking in the handicap spot.”

    McGlockton, who was in the store with his 5-year-old son, exited the store, walked to Drejka and pushed him down to the ground. Gualtieri said the push had “great force.”

    “McGlockton approached Drejka. He didn’t waste any time getting to him, and then he pushed him, but it isn’t just a push. He really slammed him to the ground,” Gualtieri explained.

    Drejka, who is a lawful concealed carry permit holder, then reaches for his gun and points it at McGlockton, who begins to back away from him. Video surveillance captures Drejka firing his pistol and striking McGlockton in the chest.

    McGlockton stumbled back into the store where he collapsed, according to a new release. He was pronounced dead at Morton Plant Hospital.

    According to Gualtieri, Drejka was cooperative with deputies and told them that he was in fear and believed that he was going to be attacked again by McGlockton.

    “He felt after being slammed to the ground that the next thing was that he was going to be further attacked by McGlockton and that he was focused on McGlockton’s lower body, really couldn’t see his hands, but he felt the next thing was that he was gonna be slammed again and that he’d be struck again and he was in fear.”

    Gualtieri said the “stand your ground” law is clear and subjective and that this incident “is within the bookends” of the self-defense law, which was recently modified. He explained that the burden of proof for “stand your ground” entitlement used to be on the defendant but now the State Attorney must prove that the shooter is not entitled to a “stand your ground” defense.

    The case will be referred to the State Attorney’s Office, Gualtieri noted.

    “I’m not saying I agree with the [the law], but I don’t make that call,” said Gualtieri, who added that the roughly four seconds between when Drejka hits the ground and when he fires his weapon gives him pause.

    Toward the end of the press conference, Gualtieri said the law has a range and that his department must work with the evidence it has and enforce the law.

    “Maybe somebody could make the case that this guy could’ve handled this differently, but that’s why you’ve got a range and you’ve got bookends and you’re going to have things that fall toward one end of the bookend or the other, that aren’t squarely in the middle. I think there’s an argument that this falls toward one side of the bookend, but it doesn’t take it outside the bookend.”

    INTRODUCTION: ‘STAND YOUR GROUND’
    In a highly publicized move, the Florida Legislature enacted in 2005 what has been popularly known as the “Stand Your Ground” law.

    This law, as outlined in Sections 776.012, and 776.013, Florida Statutes, expands the scope of a self-defense claim traditionally available in a criminal case by:

    Eliminating the general of “duty of retreat” imposed at common law;

    Presuming legal justification for the use of force in a person’s dwelling, residence, or vehicle; and

    Offering immunity from prosecution for individuals who resort to force within the parameters of the statute.

    In its simplest form, the statute provides that a person is justified in the use of deadly force and has no duty to retreat if either:

    the person reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself, or another, or to prevent the imminent commission of a forcible felony; or

    the person acts under and according to the circumstances set forth in Section 776.013 (presuming a reasonable belief as to the necessity of force in the context of ‘dwellings,’ residences, or vehicles).

    PROSECUTORIAL IMMUNITY: CURRENT LAW
    In 2017, the Florida legislature amended the ‘Stand Your Ground’ statute to significantly alter the burdens and standards of proof applicable in immunity proceedings.

    Instead of placing the entire burden on the defendant, the law now requires a defendant to establish only a prima facie case of self-defense immunity. At that point, the burden shifts to the prosecution to demonstrate by clear and convincing evidence that the defendant does not qualify for immunity.

    § 776.032(4) provides as follows:

    In a criminal prosecution, once a prima facie claim of self-defense immunity from criminal prosecution has been raised by the defendant at a pretrial immunity hearing, the burden of proof by clear and convincing evidence is on the party seeking to overcome the immunity from criminal prosecution provided in subsection (1).

    Not only does this provision shift the burden of proof to the prosecution, it also raises the standard of proof from “preponderance of the evidence” to “clear and convincing evidence.”

    Florida Stand Your Ground Law. Shooter was not liable. He was attacked and defended himself.

    Doesn’t matter what he did before this. All that matters is what happened in that snapshot in time.

    Ditto!

    I’d bet money that the guy that got shot has assaulted other people in the past and got away with it.

    I agree.

    Note there was no hesitation before 28-year-old man “pushed” 47-year-old man. This is not the first time he has done something like this and in hindsight he would still be alive if he hadn’t initiated attack.

    Additionally if McGlockton’s girlfriend, 24-year-old Brittany Jacobs, hadn’t illegally parked her car in a handicap spot or had simply moved when 47-year-old man complained about it this could also have been avoided.

    I suspect even if this goes to court he will walk, particularly since we in Florida strengthened “Stand Your Ground” law last year.

    Remember this is Florida’s “Stand Your Ground” law! Do not apply it to other areas. Know your AO’s applicable laws.

    An armed society is a polite society.

    This is the larger take away here in Florida, had the young man been polite and kept his hands to himself he would still be alive.

    #60342
    Profile photo of Robert
    Robert
    Participant

    If I had shot everyone that had every “pushed”, “slammed” or otherwise taken me to the ground… I’d have no one to practice combatives with LOL.

    Got to be able to fight from the ground, with and without weapons. Falling on hard surfaces sucks, but can be done without getting seriously injured- another training issue.

    www.jrhenterprises.com
    RMP, TC3, NODF, CRCD 6/14, CP 9/14. NODF, Land Nav, 6/15. Rifleman Challenge 9/15- Vanguard. FOFtactics 3/16, 10/16, 11/16, 6/17,11/17 CTT, 6/15, 11/16, , LRMC-1 9/17 GA Mobile CTT and DA 10/16, GA mobile DCH 3/18, HEAT1 3/18 Alum weekend 8/18, Opfor CLC 10/18, DA 11/18 CQBC 12/18

    #60344
    Profile photo of DuaneH
    DuaneH
    Participant

    I am at work and can’t access my website.

    When I get home tonight I will post Mcglocton s arrest record

    Appleseed.
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    #60349
    Profile photo of RampantRaptor
    rampantraptor
    Participant

    I’m pretty certain Drejka didn’t know McGlockton’s criminal history when he got shoved (not punched, stabbed, etc.) by him, not sure how much more relevant that is in comparison to Drejka’s own apparent history of aggression and making threats. Also not entirely certain if there was a continued threat after Drejka drew his firearm, there was a pause between him grabbing and aiming his firearm and shooting.

    IMO this comes off like the same kind of hotheadedness that saw Trayvon Martin get shot. Really you shouldn’t be looking for fights if you carry concealed. Not sure if parking in a handicap spot is such a terrible crime that you have to risk a confrontation over it. You’re in a shouting match with a woman with a kid in the car, don’t be surprised if she has a defensive boyfriend, common sense.

    Between guys like him and George Zimmerman looking for fights and getting off when they kill somebody and folks like Marissa Alexander and Siwatu Salama-Ra getting sent to jail for less dubious cases of self-defense (without a homicide afterwards) I’m really questioning how these laws are being applied in practice.

    Those of us can give up hope on ever having any form of stand your ground laws when guys do this kind of unnecessary Paul Blart shit.

    #RaqqaSummer2017
    - - -
    Jîn, Jiyan, Azadî

    #60350
    Profile photo of DuaneH
    DuaneH
    Participant

    So I watched this vid for the first time this morning at work and when I looked at it I thought about the deceased that “He’s done this before”.

    There was no hesitation, no warning or anything and he pushed the guy down.

    In the same newscast they said about the shooter that “sources indicated that he has done things like this before.”

    Interesting they never bothered to check the arrest record for the deceased. I have attached it below. I will say that this record doesn’t indicate anything major since 2011. Maybe he was getting his life turned around or maybe he just got out of jail. Dunno.

    So MSM will take “sources” but not facts. Go figure.

    I believe the shooter did the right thing in defending himself. He was just violently attacked and in a vulnerable position.

    Playing devil’s advocate, if someone was standing and talking loudly near the window of your babymama’s car I am sure we would intervene as well.

    That being said should the shooter accosted the woman behind the wheel?

    I certainly say yes and I don’t think that he was necessarily looking for a fight. There was a time that this type of thing was normal. If someone was misbehaving in public, the public would let them know that their actions were not acceptable.

    What has happened is not only have more and more people not cared about their behavior in public but the public has not cared about enforcing social norms.

    Thus more and more laws and law enforcement.

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    Appleseed.
    NOV2008 IBC
    OCT2009 FT Stewart
    OCT2010 RBC Known Distance Rifleman
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    #60352
    Profile photo of Joe (G.W.N.S.)
    Joe (G.W.N.S.)
    Moderator

    Marissa Alexander and Siwatu Salama-Ra getting sent to jail

    They went to jail for ignorance of the law for the most part.

    Alexander fired a warning shot, always stupid which equated to aggravated assault, had she just shot him she would have been fine.

    Ra got her (unloaded) handgun, which she was licensed to carry, out of the car’s glove compartment and pointed it at Harvey’s car to stop the threat and Ra didn’t report the incident for several hours. :wacko:

    So even if we assume Ra is completely truthful, she screwed up but time.

    Pointing an unloaded gun? Then not immediately reporting it? Stupid!

    George Zimmerman should never had gone to trial, it was prosecuted for political motives. There is is a reason he was acquitted.

    Drejka and Zimmerman maybe jerks, but they acted within the law.

    If Marissa Alexander and Siwatu Salama-Ra had just shot their aggressors they both would have been fine legally!

    There is a reason we stress knowing your AO’s laws and typical application given political realities!

    #60353
    Profile photo of Joe (G.W.N.S.)
    Joe (G.W.N.S.)
    Moderator

    If someone was misbehaving in public, the public would let them know that their actions were not acceptable.

    I don’t have a problem with that today in Florida!

    Just know what and where your getting yourself into such potential circumstances.

    Actions have consequences!

    Markeis McGlockton and Brittany Jacobs unfortunately didn’t appreciate those consequences.

    #60354
    Profile photo of Joe (G.W.N.S.)
    Joe (G.W.N.S.)
    Moderator

    Given what Marissa Alexander and Siwatu Salama-Ra ignorance cost them.

    I wonder what they would think in hindsight of the investment price of First Sergeant’s Defensive Concealed Handgun of only $500!

    Is $500 plus transportation/lodging a cost effective alternative?

    ;-)

    #60355
    Profile photo of DuaneH
    DuaneH
    Participant

    If someone was misbehaving in public, the public would let them know that their actions were not acceptable.

    I don’t have a problem with that today in Florida!

    Just know what and where your getting yourself into such potential circumstances.

    Actions have consequences!

    Markeis McGlockton and Brittany Jacobs unfortunately didn’t appreciate those consequences.

    Oh definitely. I suspect that in both cases neither considered that.

    Appleseed.
    NOV2008 IBC
    OCT2009 FT Stewart
    OCT2010 RBC Known Distance Rifleman
    OCT2014&2015 Long Distance Rifleman
    JUN2015 1000 Yds

    I.C.E/JAN2011 Combat Focus Shooting

    Tactical Response
    JUN2009 Fighting Pistol
    JUL2009 Fighting Rifle
    AUG2010 Immediate Action Medical
    NOV2012 Way of the Rifle

    Mountain Guerrilla/JUN2013-Irregular Warfare

    MVT
    SEP2013&2014-CRCD
    OCT2014-CP
    MAR2015-RC1=RIFLEMAN!
    AUG2015-CCC
    SEP2016-CTT
    OCT2016-FOF
    TEAM COYOTE!

    #60356
    Profile photo of Joe (G.W.N.S.)
    Joe (G.W.N.S.)
    Moderator

    Oh definitely. I suspect that in both cases neither considered that.

    Despite the the high cost a noticeable increase in such consequences would have a positive influence on society!

    On the surface it seems cold and uncaring, but the alternative is much worse!

    We must choose wisely.

    #60358
    Profile photo of Greg W
    gregw
    Participant

    Joe,

    To your knowledge does the FL law apply to a civil suit as well?

    #60359
    Profile photo of Joe (G.W.N.S.)
    Joe (G.W.N.S.)
    Moderator

    To your knowledge does the FL law apply to a civil suit as well?

    Yes, however it isn’t as clear cut as many think.

    Florida law allows “stand your ground” immunity in criminal and civil cases. But the Supreme Court opinion (9/16/17) effectively said a determination of immunity in a criminal case does not carry over to a civil case.

    This doesn’t mean there is no immunity available.

    The opinion, written by Justice Alan Lawson, pointed in part to a section of the “stand your ground” law dealing with attorney fees, saying that it “implies recognition by the Legislature that civil immunity will be determined separately in a civil proceeding.”

    Lawson also cited a change approved last year by lawmakers that dealt with the burden of proof in “stand your ground” criminal cases. That change placed a burden on prosecutors to prove by “clear and convincing evidence” that defendants are not entitled to immunity.

    “[The] 2017 amendment to the Stand Your Ground law creating different burdens of proof for criminal and civil immunity not only implies an understanding that separate immunity determinations will be made but also forecloses any argument, going forward, that the criminal `determination’ could ever be binding in the civil proceeding,” the opinion said. “Even in a case where the state could not prove by clear and convincing evidence that the defendant was not entitled to immunity, the criminal defendant may not be able to prove by a preponderance of the evidence that he is entitled to immunity in the civil case.”

    So there are protections, but they must be determined separately in Crimminal and Civil Court respectively.

    Currently it is somewhat vague how to file this Civil pretrial motion to determine if civil immunity applies.

    There are some efforts to address this by Florida Legislators to clear up this.

    #60361
    Profile photo of A_A_Ron2guns
    A_A_Ron2guns
    Participant

    The shooter had not conducted any illegal action. Informing someone they committed a crime is not legally creating an altercation.

    Being pushed to the ground can and does cause serious bodily harm which is the lowest standard for the use of deadly force.

    So the shooter was already met with that level of force. He was on the ground, with at least 2 people he could reasonably believe were hostile (possibly 3) closing on him. That’s a huge disparity of force.

    Shooter is elderly so it’s unreasonable to ask him to go hands on, again with a disparity of force.

    Primary aggressor was readying for a follow up attack (pre assault indicators= hiking pants, moving forward, hopping). He was NOT retreating when the gun was pulled but rather was blading his body and moving to the outside of the shooter. (Look at the 3rd guy that ran for what retreat looks like.

    Shooter could can be believed if he had decided to fire upon seeing all of this and drew his gun, switched forcus to the front sight, acquired a sight picture, took up slack, etc and fired a shot. I’ve seen plenty of shooters and 2 seconds between a draw and a shot is fast for most untrained people.

    It’s a good shoot even if you disagree with it.

    You are what you do, when it counts. -The Masao

    Not the other Aaron's in this industry!

    #60364
    Profile photo of First Sergeant
    First Sergeant
    Moderator

    The shooter had not conducted any illegal action. Informing someone they committed a crime is not legally creating an altercation.

    Being pushed to the ground can and does cause serious bodily harm which is the lowest standard for the use of deadly force.

    So the shooter was already met with that level of force. He was on the ground, with at least 2 people he could reasonably believe were hostile (possibly 3) closing on him. That’s a huge disparity of force.

    Shooter is elderly so it’s unreasonable to ask him to go hands on, again with a disparity of force.

    Primary aggressor was readying for a follow up attack (pre assault indicators= hiking pants, moving forward, hopping). He was NOT retreating when the gun was pulled but rather was blading his body and moving to the outside of the shooter. (Look at the 3rd guy that ran for what retreat looks like.

    Shooter could can be believed if he had decided to fire upon seeing all of this and drew his gun, switched forcus to the front sight, acquired a sight picture, took up slack, etc and fired a shot. I’ve seen plenty of shooters and 2 seconds between a draw and a shot is fast for most untrained people.

    It’s a good shoot even if you disagree with it.

    Bingo. That guy was getting ready to go in and put some boots to the guy.

    @rampantraptor – Don’t fall into the trap on Zimmerman/Martin that so many do. The entire thing was politically motivated to make Zimmerman the bad guy. Nothing that he did warranted what happened to him. The news reports and witness statements were all manipulated.

    He had lost sight of Martin and was headed back to his car when he was attacked. Not by a 12 year old the pictures would have you believe, but by a very fit, high as fuck 17 year old Martin. If he hadn’t of shot him, he would be dead. Martin should have already been in jail due to burglary tools and stolen jewelry found in his HS locker. He was let off due to a scheme to keep the crime stats low. That ties into the Parkland shooting.

    @Robert – This guy had no idea what was going to happen. I don’t care how much time you spend in the gym, if you get knocked to the ground and see the possibility of three different people coming after you, you’re fucked. One on three never turns out well.

    The one thing that the shooter didn’t do, he had zero situational awareness. He was completely blind sided. Usually someone like that doesn’t recover, he did.

    FILO
    Signal out, can you identify.
    Je ne regrette rien...
    Klagt Nicht, Kämpft

    #60370
    Profile photo of RobRoy
    RobRoy
    Participant

    With the level of privilege that the Glockton’s of this country are allowed in these days I am going to ASSUME that he was running his mouth about whoopin some ass on the old dude.

    My take is I might have drawn but not shot if I had seen him back away as he did, but since I am old and have experience with the Glocktons of the world if I heard him making what amounts to death threats I would probably have shot, knowing that such a hot head is in a deadly force mode. If Glockton would have instead said “shut the fuck up old man and leave my woman alone” I would have.

    #60371
    Profile photo of Robert
    Robert
    Participant

    OK I watched it finally. The broad barely opens the car door. Mr. Concerned for the handicapped citizen should have backed away then IMO. Nothing stupider to fight with than a crazy chic. Got a beer bottle crashed over my head one time breaking up a “chic fight” in a bar near a pool table. Looks like she only opened the car door after she saw the guy coming out of the store.

    Shooter got sucked in to his little “citizen’s arrest!” Barney Fife parking job too much and totally didn’t pay attention to hubby/baby daddy when he came up. If your going to start shit with someone, check your surroundings, get off the curb at least, know your escape routes. Looks like about 6 seconds from hubby leaving store (door opening) to the shove. 6 seconds = a lot of movement. Shooter got sucked into his little argument with the chic.

    Dude falls off the curb, that probably jarred him more than anything, fall didn’t look too terribly bad. Yeah I’ve done this sort of thing in parking lots before and it sucks but you can land without a huge injury. His butt seemed to take the blunt of it. Looked about another 4-5 seconds for him to react and get the pistol on the guy, then pause more then shoot. Those 4-5 seconds equal movement also… The same shit applies in reverse- “pusher” there sees the guy fall than start clamoring at his side- rush him or beat feet.

    Didn’t have the audio on- did he attempt to verbalize with the guy before shooting. Looks like a good pause there between hitting ground getting the pistol out and the shot?

    www.jrhenterprises.com
    RMP, TC3, NODF, CRCD 6/14, CP 9/14. NODF, Land Nav, 6/15. Rifleman Challenge 9/15- Vanguard. FOFtactics 3/16, 10/16, 11/16, 6/17,11/17 CTT, 6/15, 11/16, , LRMC-1 9/17 GA Mobile CTT and DA 10/16, GA mobile DCH 3/18, HEAT1 3/18 Alum weekend 8/18, Opfor CLC 10/18, DA 11/18 CQBC 12/18

    #60373
    Profile photo of wheelsee
    wheelsee
    Participant

    Keep in mind that action is ALWAY faster than reaction. Though some of what Bill Lewinski (Force Science Research Center – http://www.forcescience.org ) has taught has been debunked, the reaction times have not. It takes ~ ¾ second to identify a threat and respond. It takes another ¾ second to recognize no threat and stop. This means ~ 1.5 second gap in what can be happening. Texas DPS did a similar study with its recruits in the early 2000s in known shoot/no-shoot scenarios. With trained personnel, knowing what was going to happen, the average (let that sink in) was 0.66 seconds (for each phase).

    This is why there can be shots into the side or back of someone (“hey, that’s NOT a threat”) when in fact 1.5 seconds earlier they were a threat. Being shoved to the ground, the fact of being attacked, being older, different medications, any number of factors can cause the brain to process information slower – so the ~ 2 second gap between drawing and firing, IMHO, can still be reasonable.

    Which is heavier - a soldier's pack or a slave's chains? Napoleon

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    #60374
    Profile photo of RobRoy
    RobRoy
    Participant

    Up above those were my opinions I reserve the right to be wrong and change my mind.

    But old Barney Fife there played Level Orange on the Level White level, that’s a friggin no go IMO. Didn’t 1st Sgt give us a thread about awareness.

    More yap from me, take away here, mess with the vibrancy you will often get the vibrancy good and hard and I mean from all colors not anyone group.

    #60377
    Profile photo of Joe (G.W.N.S.)
    Joe (G.W.N.S.)
    Moderator

    Didn’t have the audio on- did he attempt to verbalize with the guy before shooting.

    There is no audio. Which is unfortunate as it could add more context.

    The two big questions are was this legal and should Drejka have gotten involved?

    Yes it was legal.

    Whether or not Drejka should have gotten involved is judgement call. One that is not for me to question since his actions were completely legal.

    Now discussing possible consequences of such a call helps us decide ahead of time what we will do in a given circumstance.

    I would not fault anyone who ignored the illegal parking by Jacobs.

    Getting involved in any situation not directly affecting your sphere is a moral judgement.

    Many advocate never getting involved.

    Those with that view would ignore or flee from the most heinous acts.

    Some advocate that it is a citizens duty to intervene for the good of society.

    These will step into the most trivial acts.

    Obviously there is much middle ground between the two views.

    I don’t care what you choose, but advocate knowing potential consequences of your choice!

    Something to consider.

    Some of our Forum members are better trained than the average standard.

    However most have never been victims of violence.

    It is easy to judge someone’s actions with no threat, no adrenalin pumping, no pain, and no stress.

    Consider the observation of McGlockton stepping back, we observe this from a side view in total comfort having watched clip multiple times.

    Drejka observed this looking up from the ground to his front; under duress, while drawing his pistol. The approximately 32″ of rearward movement by McGlockton as he quartered his stance was likely not even perceived by Drejka.

    Noticing such subtle movements in these conditions is not the same as watching a video.

    #60378
    Profile photo of JohnnyMac
    JohnnyMac
    Participant

    Just my two cents:

    My first inclination was that Drejka, although pushed to the ground, was not facing imminent threat of serious bodily harm, but the more I’ve thought about it, the more I realize I’m thinking from MY perspective, not necessarily his or that of the average citizen. He appears physically weak, and, like the average citizen, probably has little to no training,

    In his situation, it’s probably reasonable for him to conclude he was about to get stomped by the guy. As A_A_Ron2guns pointed out, the hiking of the pants and squaring up illustrates McGlockton preparing for “actions on”. We don’t hear what was said, which is a missing piece of the puzzle. He really only paused when he saw Drejka reaching for something.

    To me, the big thing is “was it worth it”?
    -was it worth it for the family to park in the handicapped spot?
    -was it worth it for Drejka to say something?
    -was it worth it for McGlockton to assault Drejka? (that’s a pretty easy one)
    -was it worth it for Drejka to draw and fire? (who can say)

    I see the incident as a series of unfortunate events that probably just squeeks within the confines of Florida law.

    was likely not even perceived by Drejka

    With an adrenaline dump, memory can be super hazy. Chances are, what he remembers of it is more like a couple still frames than a 90sec film clip that we see.

    #60379
    Profile photo of Joe (G.W.N.S.)
    Joe (G.W.N.S.)
    Moderator

    Some thoughts after reading latest propaganda.

    I believe an important point being obscured by Socialist media propaganda is McGlockton died because he attacked Drejka!

    He did not die over a handicap parking argument!

    He died because he thought he could attack Drejka without consequences.

    He wasn’t defending his girlfriend and kids from violence.

    He was demonstrating his immaturity.

    McGlockton left his children without a father because he lacked the ability to control himself!

    McGlockton’s 5 year old son saw his father bleed out on a convenience store floor because his father was a idiot!

    These facts maybe harsh for the snowflakes to hear, but they are the facts.

    Note: There are some commenters within the hoodlum community that believe that the only mistake McGlockton made was his lack of follow through when attacking Drejka. If he had only continued his attack things would have been fine! :wacko:

    #60384
    Profile photo of A_A_Ron2guns
    A_A_Ron2guns
    Participant

    I want to add another point or two.

    The laws regarding self defense are (usually) very forgiving for the average person. You only have to be in imminent reasonable fear for your or another persons life or serious bodily harm.

    That’s it. The prosecution has to prove that you didn’t feel that way. That’s even if you get charged. Civil matters are a different story.

    You can use a reasonable amount of force to defend yourself from a criminal action and you don’t have to wait to be hit first.

    If someone is yelling at you making threats and advancing you have already been assaulted. It’s reasonable to assume you’re about to be battered and therefore you can act to prevent that and in so doing defend yourself.

    Mutual combat is very common, criminal and civil prosecution for it is rare.

    You as a private citizen have a very broad ability to defend yourself and others. We rarely see that done because most people are cowards, fear prosecution because they don’t understand the legal system and most serious violent crime happens to a small segment of the population. Yesterday’s victims are tomorrow’s suspects.

    This isn’t legal advice or carte blanche to go get into fights but rather to understand what you can do so that you can react faster.

    I’ll end with two parting thoughts, that broken windows lead to broken neighborhoods and the public is the police and the police are the public.

    You are what you do, when it counts. -The Masao

    Not the other Aaron's in this industry!

    #61276
    Profile photo of Groundwork
    Groundwork
    Participant
    #61277
    Profile photo of Darkrivers
    Darkrivers
    Participant

    Thats disgusting. :wacko:

    If you're gonna fight, fight like you're the 3rd monkey on the ramp to Noah's Ark... And Brother, it's starting to rain! James from Texas

    #61279
    Profile photo of Joe (G.W.N.S.)
    Joe (G.W.N.S.)
    Moderator

    Thanks for the update Groundwork!

    I’ll have to look into the FL details for Manslaughter, but if shooter has competent representation I suspect he will be acquitted.

    Time will tell.

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