October 20, 2015 at 4:45 am #21847MaxKeymaster
Note: This reply is not by Max, but is from a former participant.
Had a sitdown with my ATL. Somehow we ended up discussing gang activity in the community post collapse. What the plan would be if we were all forced to defend our homes, against heavily armed assholes looting neighbors at gun point.
So at this point its an open conversation on this Forum. I really never gave it any thought.
How do we best train for armed gang activities? Not taking a few dudes shaking down the neighbors for bottled water. Rather how to deal with an organized and armed gang or group of gangs which have control of the community, operate at will, without challenge or risk?October 20, 2015 at 5:15 am #21848Ronald BealParticipant
Intel! IPB! Gangsters still have to sleep, eat, etc.
Travelling the world... Home is Nashville, TNOctober 20, 2015 at 5:32 am #21849Mike QParticipant
I would assume you and your group would be outnumbered, therefore a straight up fight, in your own neighborhood would be a losing proposition. Having to fight at a time of the gang’s choosing is not the way to go. I would think gathering as much Intel as possible, recce the known enemy location (CP class), and attacking at the moment of your choosing is the best bet. Destroying their mode of transportation will severely limit their mobility. Also simply wounding them will most likely result in death inside a few days since no medical care will really be available. Therefore constant small attacks hitting one or two individuals per day will reduce their numbers and sow confusion and fear in their ranks. After all gangs are run on fear and the perceived strength of the leaders.
I think training to hurt a large gang will be utilizing insurgency attacks. One large attack will have a bad outcome for your team. Small pinprick attacks will have a greater chance of hitting more of the enemy while minimizing your team’s risks. The challenge then becomes the gangs retaliation on the sheep. The good news is the gangs shouldn’t be able to pull in reinforcements like an invading army could. So everyone one you take out is one less to deal with and won’t be replaced.
There never seems to be enough time to do it right, but there is always enough time to do it twice.
CRM Sept. 2014, CTT 1505, CTT July 2015, RC-Rifleman 1502, CP Nov. 2015, FoF March 2016, CCW May 2016, FoF Oct. 2016, FoF Nov. 2016, CLC April 2017, FoF Nov. 2017, Alumni weekend Aug. 2018, CQB Dec. 2018, CQB May 2019October 20, 2015 at 11:05 am #21851trailmanParticipant
A couple of bodies in selected sites hanging by a noose with a sign on them would go along way too.
You should tap into your local law enforcement for intel on gang activities and data. If you are building your tribe you should work on an asset like that.
CRM, CTT 1501, CP11/15, CTT5/16, FoF, DCH, CLC Opfor, Team Minion
Just remember, Anne Frank was a criminal because the government made her one and she died because she broke the law.October 20, 2015 at 11:45 am #21852Joe (G.W.N.S.)Moderator
The “how two” can only be determined by a detailed analysis of their capability vs your capability.
The gangs main advantage will be it’s inoculation to violence, something few Citizens have.October 20, 2015 at 3:39 pm #21859DiznNCParticipant
Ditto on the intel aspect. See if you can do ride a longs with the local PD or SD. They will know all about it.
Well, mild to wild, there are a few things. First would just be a presence in your hood. Nothing in your face, just peeps out walking, and noticing things. Next would be calling the local po po with suspicious activity sightings. But don’t get too stupid with that either. But if you can prove gang activity moving into your hood, you might get more police presence.
Without WROL? The rules change somewhat. As Max has always preached, expand your perimeter as far as troops and logistics allow. Bumping into them a few blocks away is preferable than at your doorstep. Talk with the surrounding neighbors; gather intel. Make your home/retreat a hard target. These guys are in the business of stealing what they need to survive. They will usually go elsewhere if it becomes apparent you are going to fight back- hard.
If it really becomes a problem, and can’t be interdicted at the local level, then this is where the intel comes in. You send out deep recce patrols and find out where they are operating. You find out then where they are based out of. Then you do a night raid and kill as many of them as possible.
If this doesn’t solve the problem, it may be beyond your capabilities, and alternate plans may have to be made. You either have to find other groups to join forces with, or leave the AO.
I think you can see that stealth is your number one defense. The further out of the way you are, the less likely it is you will come into contact with gangs of inner-city youths.
But, you are where you are. If you have this problem, then you may end up taking the bull by the horns.
CTT 1505, NODF 1505, CP 1503, LN 1, RC II, RiflemanOctober 20, 2015 at 6:52 pm #21870MaxKeymaster
Note: This reply is not by Max, but is from a former participant.
I seem to think MVT had an article on Gangs. Although not certain about it. Coordinating with local LE may bring results, although this thread addresses the rise of outlaw gangs post collapse.
Anyone know about this when Argentina went belly-up?October 20, 2015 at 8:47 pm #21873Joe (G.W.N.S.)Moderator
Gangs in the U.S. come in a variety of types, from hardcore major criminal enterprises, to small town wannabes, and everything in between.
Even in small town rural America.
In fact as mentioned in a few recent threads many small towns have representatives from various drug Cartels. The Cartels seem to be interested in removing some of the middleman overhead.
Some of the first threats “Post Event” may come from Gangs as they will see it as an “opportunity” for power and as a way to survive. Since they are already in established groups they will have an advantage over those who are not in groups/teams.
So understanding the current gangs in your AO and surrounding Area of Interest is very important to your survival and is part of the IPB/Area Study.
Start at the local Neighborhood then moving onto your Town, County, State, and Nation.
Remember it just isn’t the current gangs in your AO that you need to be aware of, but the criminals (dealers, thiefs, addicts, prostitutes, sex offenders, etc…)you need data on all of these “Pre Event.”
This information is easily acquired now and maybe unavailable depending on scenario “Post Event.”
A couple of hours a week working your IPB/Area Study is all it takes!
Ultimately there are two points of consideration that cover deaths in combat.
Lives that were spent on the battlefield and lives that were wasted on the battlefield!
The spending of lives is a costly but necessary part of armed conflict.
The wasting of lives due to incompetence, lack of planning, and arrogance to name a few. This is an unnecessary part of armed conflict that unfortunately happens far too often.
Ignoring the role of Intelligence, the concepts behind it, and the products it provides will directly lead to Lives Wasted!
Do not learn this lesson the hard way.October 20, 2015 at 10:48 pm #21878D CloseModerator
Zuke19, I had posted this Gangs thread some time ago to get the intel discussion going.
I do regard organized gangs as the primary threat post SHTF. Please add your gang intel to the original thread as you discover it in your AO.
The only easy day was yesterdayOctober 21, 2015 at 12:03 pm #2188912aklabsParticipant
Samuel Culper has a great book on this stuff named “SHFT Intelligence” that I highly recommend.
Never give up. Never quit.April 3, 2019 at 9:56 pm #66842Sitting DuckParticipant
Does your local newspaper have a “Police blotter”? If so please read it. Often in small town America that doesn’t have organized gang activity, will have groups that will see a change from the status quo as an opportunity. You don’t need SHTF for the lady with 3DWIs a history of writing bad checks and a kid with a history of Overdosing to come to settle a score with you or your neighbor. Same with the hunter you kicked off your land you bought.
Y2K my neighbor was ready with his tractor on the generator, expecting the cold starving women to be throwing themselves at him for some warm food. He hadn’t considered that his ex-wife or many of the other people he couldn’t get along with/hadn’t paid/fought with, might be ready for the police to be a little busy and take advantage of the chaos. He spent the night praying the power stayed on. The prospect of”Festivus” becoming “The Purge” scared the pants off him.
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