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Ghost Gunner

This topic contains 25 replies, has 7 voices, and was last updated by Profile photo of Joe (G.W.N.S.) Joe (G.W.N.S.) 5 months, 2 weeks ago.

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  • #26383
    Profile photo of Joe (G.W.N.S.)
    Joe (G.W.N.S.)
    Moderator

    All this talk of 80% lowers got me thinking about Ghost Gunner.

    What I would like to see if Ghost Gunner is capable of this…

    …a Beretta 92 FS frame! :yes:

    A hobbyist has built a number of weapons using equipment far beyond Ghost Gunner. His web site is CNC Gunsmithing.

    He has built AR-15 Lower, AR-15A2 Upper, AR-15A3 Upper, AR-15 Detachable Handle in both A2 and A1 configurations, AR-10 Lower, Ak-47 Receiver, 1911A1 Frame, STI Frame, SIG P228 Frame, Beretta 92FS/M9 Frame, AR-45 Lower Receiver, and HK416.

    The Beretta before frame was anodized.

    Cool stuff!

    #26384
    Profile photo of Joe (G.W.N.S.)
    Joe (G.W.N.S.)
    Moderator

    As technology evolves and people continue to think outside the box this is a great step to render the very idea of gun control obsolete.

    Consider this unique method of building a AR-15 lower…

    …Freedom-15 100% AR-15 Lower Mold Kit & Resin.

    I am not ready for a plastic or resin lower, but what will tomorrow bring?

    How long before we can print or mold a Glock frame?

    Small scale CNC machines beyond Ghost Gunner are coming to market.

    I like it!

    #26386
    Profile photo of Joe (G.W.N.S.)
    Joe (G.W.N.S.)
    Moderator

    Actually with that resin kit, I wonder what mixing Carbon Nanotubes in with the mix would have on strength?

    Might make for fun experiment.

    #26388
    Profile photo of First Sergeant
    First Sergeant
    Moderator

    Weaponsman blog has a lot of info on the Ghost Gunner and the 3D printing. If you are interested check out his site and use the search.

    FILO
    Signal out, can you identify.
    Je ne regrette rien...
    Klagt Nicht, Kämpft

    #26389
    Profile photo of Joe (G.W.N.S.)
    Joe (G.W.N.S.)
    Moderator

    Weaponsman blog…

    Yea, isn’t he trying to use the Ghost Gunner CNC to make some custom aviation parts as well?

    #26391
    Profile photo of First Sergeant
    First Sergeant
    Moderator

    Weaponsman blog…

    Yea, isn’t he trying to use the Ghost Gunner CNC to make some custom aviation parts as well?

    I think so.

    FILO
    Signal out, can you identify.
    Je ne regrette rien...
    Klagt Nicht, Kämpft

    #26392
    Profile photo of Joe (G.W.N.S.)
    Joe (G.W.N.S.)
    Moderator

    I don’t know how many here are aware of “Sand Casting,” but I get this idea of 3D Printing AR lower out of foam like material and casting my own lower out of soda cans.

    Sure it’s a bit more involved to get the right alloy, but it’s not not more difficult than it sounds.

    Got to get the temp right on the molten alloy which is really the hardest part.

    Now that would get the socialist heads spinning, could even label it as a better “Green Option” you know for the environment! :good:

    #26438
    Profile photo of tango
    tango
    Participant

    Watch closely in the Cartel Land documentary and you’ll see quite a few of these.

    Baptême du feu
    L'appel du vide

    #26465
    Profile photo of Palmetto
    Palmetto
    Participant

    I don’t know how many here are aware of “Sand Casting,” but I get this idea of 3D Printing AR lower out of foam like material and casting my own lower out of soda cans.

    Sure it’s a bit more involved to get the right alloy, but it’s not not more difficult than it sounds.

    Got to get the temp right on the molten alloy which is really the hardest part.

    Now that would get the socialist heads spinning, could even label it as a better “Green Option” you know for the environment!

    Would you try to cast a full lower or an 80%? Seems like the sand casting wouldn’t be precise enough for a 100% lower. But it seems like an awesome possibility for making 80%’s. Do you think it’s actually viable to produce a safe, suitable, and sound lower that way?

    Pray for peace but prepare for war.

    CR, Nov 8-9, 2014; CTT, Apr 24-26, 2015

    #26467
    Profile photo of Joe (G.W.N.S.)
    Joe (G.W.N.S.)
    Moderator

    Do you think it’s actually viable to produce a safe, suitable, and sound lower that way?

    Yes, sand casting is used for making prototype parts and and low volume specialty items. I’ve done some sand casting in bronze to make specialty boat parts and recreations of obsolete marine fittings.

    Remember you would be making a receiver blank.

    Which as shown is just a roughly shape receiver, I would have to research what is the standard reference point, this is the basis for all future holes and machining.

    The other factor would be determining the type of aluminum (in this case soda cans) I am dealing with then determine what alloys or elements; if any, I would need to change to get roughly what aluminum blend we need. Finally depending methods getting a rough equivalent Temper to the alloy.

    Remember what I am talking about is a small scale production most likely Post-Event.

    Raw Receiver blanks (sometimes called 0% receivers) can be purchased for for around $25.

    Having the skill/equipment to machine prevents all but the most skilled or patient novice from using these blanks.

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    #26469
    Profile photo of Joe (G.W.N.S.)
    Joe (G.W.N.S.)
    Moderator

    As this small scale CNC machines, metal 3D printers, and polymer 3D printers become more advanced and common it will render the entire ban argument obsolete.

    #26482
    Profile photo of Palmetto
    Palmetto
    Participant

    As this small scale CNC machines, metal 3D printers, and polymer 3D printers become more advanced and common it will render the entire ban argument obsolete.

    Nope. It would just mean that 3D printers and such will become exceptionally expensive and require federal licensing and annual taxation to own them.

    Pray for peace but prepare for war.

    CR, Nov 8-9, 2014; CTT, Apr 24-26, 2015

    #26483
    Profile photo of Joe (G.W.N.S.)
    Joe (G.W.N.S.)
    Moderator

    Not when you can build one in your basement!

    #26489
    Profile photo of Barry Anderson
    gatlinggun
    Participant

    I would strongly advise against using soda cans for aluminum castings. I know people do use old pistons, soda cans, and other junk to make castings but, in the case of firearms, its not advisable. For aluminum there are two types: wrought and castable. Wrought aluminum is alloyed for sheet, plate, round, and other solid bar stock. Castable aluminum is alloyed specifically for castings. One of the most common casting alloys is 356. It has been in use for many decades and is used for such things as crankcases, transmission housings and so forth.
    I have extensive experience casting bronze parts for Gatling guns and some experience casting aluminum. Sand casting can be very labor intensive.

    To see our finished Gatlings visit my website: andersonguncraftgatlings.com and my facebook page facebook.com/andersonguncraft

    Castings will never be as strong as forgings.

    When the government's boot is on your throat, whether it is a left boot or a right boot is of no consequence.

    CTT 08/15

    #26493
    Profile photo of Joe (G.W.N.S.)
    Joe (G.W.N.S.)
    Moderator

    Good info Gatlingun! :good:

    In my defense on soda can use…

    The other factor would be determining the type of aluminum (in this case soda cans) I am dealing with then determine what alloys or elements; if any, I would need to change to get roughly what aluminum blend we need.

    As I am sure you are aware it is possible to change the characteristics of aluminum as part of the smelting process depending on which elements are introduced, for most casting the introduction of silicon which helps lower the melting point. Essentially making it pour easier. Magnesium would most likely be needed also.

    Also this was more about what is possible vice something I would truly undertake. At $25 to $35 dollars for a AR Blank casting, this is not something I would want to do in our present situation.

    Sand casting can be very labor intensive.

    Which is why it is used for making prototype parts and and low volume specialty items.

    To see our finished Gatlings…

    Beautiful work, I truly love those and impressive craftsmanship. :yes:

    #26494
    Profile photo of Palmetto
    Palmetto
    Participant

    Well too bad. Still, there must be some viable DIY prepper-type application for soda can sand casting. I had rolled that around in my mind over a year ago and couldn’t come up with anything practical outside of toys, art, and ornaments. Anyone have any ideas? :unsure: I know this is getting off topic.

    Pray for peace but prepare for war.

    CR, Nov 8-9, 2014; CTT, Apr 24-26, 2015

    #26495
    Profile photo of Joe (G.W.N.S.)
    Joe (G.W.N.S.)
    Moderator

    Still, there must be some viable DIY prepper-type application for soda can sand casting.

    Expand your thinking a little, if this is something you want to learn. The possibilities are almost limitless.

    Depending on what type of “Event” happens, in some of the worse scenarios we could find ourselves in there will still be a need for various things/parts etc…

    If infrastructure takes a big enough hit, rebuilding will require adapting what is left and moving on. Initially there would be need for replacement parts, just because we can’t find an existing replacement doesn’t mean we’re done.

    If what we need is unavailable we manufacture a replacement.

    Initially progress would be slow, but with each step recovery will grow exponentially. There is no reason to settle for an nineteenth century life (insert whatever century you feel is correct).

    Don’t have gasoline to power equipment, build a gasification system so you don’t need gas.

    Individually we are weak and everyone is ignorant of somethings, but together we are strong and the combined knowledge is great.

    That is why we talk of community/tribe etc…

    If Edison could build a working lightbulb in 1879, why couldn’t we if the need was there?

    Just some thoughts.

    #26496
    Profile photo of Palmetto
    Palmetto
    Participant

    I get the ingenuity of post collapse application but I was thinking of practical applications for things that could be fabricated now. I just can’t come up with something that couldn’t be improvised more easily out of readily available material. Arrow heads maybe? Things that would be cheaper to make than commercial products, or better to custom make, or easily made in bulk, or things you may not want a record of purchasing, or things that cannot be easily obtained.

    Pray for peace but prepare for war.

    CR, Nov 8-9, 2014; CTT, Apr 24-26, 2015

    #26497
    Profile photo of Joe (G.W.N.S.)
    Joe (G.W.N.S.)
    Moderator

    The only economical thing Sand Casting is good for is making prototype parts, low volume specialty, or obsolete items.

    It can be an interesting hobby.

    Sand casting can be very labor intensive.

    Which is another way of saying very expensive! :yes:

    So let’s end this thread drift on hypothetical products.

    Feel free to start a separate Thread.

    #26498
    Profile photo of RampantRaptor
    rampantraptor
    Participant

    Like an earlier poster noted, if something like this becomes too popular they’ll just regulate it out of existence. The friendly folks in Annapolis already banned 3D-printed receivers and magazines here in the Maryland Soviet Socialist Republic. I still downloaded the CAD files just in case we’re ever WROL and because fuck those guys. If I lived in a free state the first thing I’d do if I ever got a 3D printer would be to print out an AR magazine, just because.

    Yeah, you have to be careful with alloys and whatnot because if the temper and such isn’t good you’re looking at a dangerous-to-fire weapon, like a Khyber Pass copy (though some of those aren’t too shabby, either). I don’t claim to be an expert in that field, though.

    In Europe and the Middle East blank guns converted to shoot live ammo are sold underground to those who can’t afford the real deal, apparently Turkish brands are the most popular because they use firearms-grade steel, other brands converted in such a manner risk rapid unscheduled disassembly during firing.

    If things ever got really goofy I’d totally expect any armed group worth a damn to either CNC or 3D-print their own weapons, parts and munitions, or machine them out of sheet metal. In Australia apparently 10% of seized firearms are now homemade, from zip guns to Sten guns, and that’s in peacetime. Look up photos in Libya and Syria and you’ll see folks building their own armored cars (one Syrian group even built one with a turret controlled with a PlayStation controller), milling their own mortars, making “hellcannons” with propane canisters – the Kurds in the PKK and YPG even make their own heavy sniper rifles using repurposed Dushka barrels. I remember reading online about a dude here in the States who (legally) built an AK lower with an old shovel and I felt pretty amazed.

    In SHTF and with the proper tools and imagination, anything is possible.

    Addendum: Just looked at those gatling guns, remind me to be friends with that guy if things go really south. lol

    #RaqqaSummer2017
    - - -
    Jîn, Jiyan, Azadî

    #26499
    Profile photo of Brian from Georgia
    Brian from Georgia
    Participant

    Using alterative materials for an AR15 lower is doable since it isn’t under much load. Even then, manufacturers use forged 7075T6 (a stronger aluminum) and anodize it to increase hardness for wear considerations.

    The 3D printing industry is just taking off with material and process improvements There are glass-filled nylons capable of resisting temps over 250, high-strength 6Al4V titanium laser sintered parts printed from powder, etc. US Navy actually plans to fly a flight critical part in 2017. AM is all the rage in DoD.

    The high end laser sintering machines such as EOS M290 approach $1M and they are limited to printing part roughly 10″ X 10″ X 12″ in size. But I think you will see the same advancements we saw with PCs over the last 20 years. Price will come down and technology will improve at an exponential rate. We’ll certainly have those personal printers in the basement at some point.

    There are a lot of companies out there offering printing services but it’s still expensive. An aluminum or titanium receiver could cost $1K to $2K but it comes out close to 100%. CNC is still much cheaper for any decent volume but that can’t touch forging or casting.

    Years ago, I designed a rifle receiver and had a company 3D print a pattern for a 17-4 PH stainless steel investment casting. There’s a lot of engineering that goes into the process. I might do a write-up if there is interest but I’ll warn you that it will get pretty technical.

    3-4 Aug 2013 CRCD, 2-6 Aug 2014 CRCD/Patrol, 30 Sep 2016 Run n Gun, 1-2 Oct 2016 FoF, 3-4 March 2018 DCH alumni
    Team Coyote

    #26500
    Profile photo of Joe (G.W.N.S.)
    Joe (G.W.N.S.)
    Moderator

    Like an earlier poster noted, if something like this becomes too popular they’ll just regulate it out of existence.

    Laws don’t prevent things from happening, they only provide a means of punishment when caught.

    Drugs are illegal! How’s that working?

    I might do a write-up if there is interest but I’ll warn you that it will get pretty technical.

    Brian’s post demonstrates my point, there are people with knowledge, and these people can accomplish things as purposed.

    Much of this thread becomes an example what can be done if the need arises.

    Obviously with the shear number of weapons available in this country, I don’t see the need to backyard build for most of us at this time.

    Even my illegal drugs comment, has a example in regards to smuggling. Shortly after the Assault Weapons Ban took affect, two CONEX boxes of Chinese Type 56(AK47) select fire rifles were seized in California.

    If you can smuggle tons of drugs into this country, weapons are not any different.

    #26502
    Profile photo of RampantRaptor
    rampantraptor
    Participant

    @G.W.N.S.: I should’ve noted *legal* existence, obviously people are still going to do things illegally regardless. But for one of us wanting to build our own stuff pre-SHTF, for the experience and for kicks, they’ll try to make that a felony or some BS.

    …Now I’m wondering if anyone’s made CAD files for forward grips and the like, that could also be something neat to print out. If I had a printer of course, the prices are dropping but still out of my range.

    #RaqqaSummer2017
    - - -
    Jîn, Jiyan, Azadî

    #26504
    Profile photo of Joe (G.W.N.S.)
    Joe (G.W.N.S.)
    Moderator

    I should’ve noted *legal* existence, obviously people are still going to do things illegally regardless.

    Please understand I am not saying that lightly, hundreds of thousands gun-owners in NY and CT have chosen to be outlaws rather than obey the most recent gun laws there.

    They maybe outlaws, but I don’t consider them criminals.

    We live in interesting times!

    #26505
    Profile photo of Barry Anderson
    gatlinggun
    Participant

    Thanks for the compliments on the Gatlings.

    My view on the “ghost gunner” idea is whatever you do do it quietly. Make stacks of receivers and stock pile parts to turn them into something usable. Then when the world goes sideways you have a stock to sell, barter, or do with as you please.

    As a career machinist I don’t know how the trade will look after the ‘big” event. Will electricity be available? If not how can it be generated in sufficient quantities to run a machine shop (think at least 240 volt 3 phase power)? If that is not possible, can the 19th century technology of steam generation plants and line-shaft driven machines be resurrected? All the modern tech is only useful if electricity is available. In a EMP environment will the computers that drive the high tech work? Because of my trade I ponder these kinds of questions with regards to getting industry running again post event.

    When the government's boot is on your throat, whether it is a left boot or a right boot is of no consequence.

    CTT 08/15

    #60703
    Profile photo of Joe (G.W.N.S.)
    Joe (G.W.N.S.)
    Moderator

    With My recent Thread The Battle for Firearms Information! I thought this Thread worth revisiting.

    Mainly to promote outside the box thinking! ;-)

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