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Gun bans: What does non-compliance look like?

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  • #65296
    Profile photo of Joe (G.W.N.S.)Joe (G.W.N.S.)
    Moderator

    Max brought many important points recently in the Thread Red Ralph – Virginia Gun Control Package forthcoming.

    So no, I’m not asking for people to start beating their chests, and ‘Molon Labe’ is pointless posturing. But what does it look like if inevitably these laws are passed, if not this year, but the next or in five years? And not juts in VA, but in your State soon also.

    What does non-compliance look like? What if you are trying to train and exercise your rights?

    I’ve been active in this; to this point primarily political, fight for a very long time.

    Like most here I’ve heard the empty chest thumping that passes for a resistance plan.

    However, when questioned further most have no plan and certainly no preparations in place for true resistance.

    There are many fantasies that if ever put to the test of reality will only result in imprisonment or death of shortsighted individual if their lucky.

    Worst case the destruction or death of their loved ones while they rot in prison.

    This is not the format for detailed plans of resistance.

    What will be discussed is a realistic assessment of dangers and things that need to be addressed long before any action could even be considered.

    So your State or the Federal Government has finally crossed your line in the sand!

    Now what?

    I am assuming you’ve decided against relocating (State) or compliance with the new Law.

    You obviously have the following taken into account…

    Are you single?

    If so things will be far simpler.

    Married?

    Is your spouse a trained equal or someone who tolerates your playing “Army” at MVT?

    Got minor children?

    Who’s going to care for them if your arrested, on the run, imprisoned, or killed?

    Your assets maybe seized, how are you going to support family?

    Most life insurance isn’t going to pay out for death as a result of active participation in criminal activity.

    These are just a few points to consider even if your just planning civil disobedience.

    I am just getting started!

    Note: I am not trying to talk anyone out of resistance in what ever form they choose, but make sure you know what your getting into and make realistic plans to support your obligations.

    Much more to follow.

    #65297
    Profile photo of Joe (G.W.N.S.)Joe (G.W.N.S.)
    Moderator

    Are you single?

    If so things will be far simpler.

    Got cash?

    Got caches?

    But your only going to passively/peacefully protest, why would you need cash and caches?

    What happens if the peaceful protest turns violent?

    What if your rounded up, even just as a bystander?

    What if you are CCW at event that goes wrong?

    What if you CCW at event and end up defending yourself?

    If on the run you’ll need cash and caches, if arrested they may search home and confiscate your property that isn’t cached as part of investigation.

    Let’s forget about protest/civil disobedience for right now.

    You’ve decided to just hide for the time being.

    Think of all the people that know you have or had these now illegal guns.

    Any of them pissed off at you?

    How about the liberal relative or even just naive relative who doesn’t want you getting hurt and may turn you in?

    Ex wife, husband, girlfriend, boyfriend with a grudge?

    Keeping recently decreed illegal guns at home could be a costly mistake in this new situation.

    How are you going to practice and maintain your skills now that your a unidentified criminal?

    We haven’t even got into more elaborate resistance concerns. ;-)

    #65298
    Profile photo of Joe (G.W.N.S.)Joe (G.W.N.S.)
    Moderator

    Married?

    Is your spouse a trained equal or someone who tolerates your playing “Army” at MVT?

    These are potentially difficult questions, but must be answered with brutal honesty.

    What is your spouse’s commitment to Rightful Liberty?

    True believer or just going along to get along?

    Trained and capable or in need of support and protection?

    What’s their life experience in adversity?

    Tough as can be or mild mannered and anxious?

    What’s the true quality of your marriage?

    If children are involved, recognize how they could be used against you as leverage by investigators.

    As you can see the decision to take a stand against attacks on liberty are not to be taken lightly.

    #65299
    Profile photo of Joe (G.W.N.S.)Joe (G.W.N.S.)
    Moderator

    Got minor children?

    Who’s going to care for them if your arrested, on the run, imprisoned, or killed?

    This also applies to anyone in your care, for example an elderly parent or handicapped relative.

    We can add required prescription medications to anyone involved as well. How are you going to get these if you were to find yourself on the run from tyranny?

    Is it realistic to have these dependents with you once you have become a criminal?

    If not who will care for them?

    Have you made arrangements for legal guardianship?

    Financial support for them?

    Perhaps your spouse will care for dependents after disavowing you?

    Do they have sufficient resources?

    These are just some basic considerations for the aspiring Freedom Fighter.

    #65301
    Profile photo of Joe (G.W.N.S.)Joe (G.W.N.S.)
    Moderator

    So now that we have addressed some of your domestic responsibilities.

    Let’s discuss theoretical options available should you decide against relocating or compliance.

    Understand I am not convinced that Governments inability to find firearms despite your statement that they were sold, lost, or destroyed will be enough to prevent a conviction giving current legal situation. YMMV!

    That said keeping banned firearms and/or accessories anywhere they can be connected to you may be a poor choice unless you truly are ready to fight.

    Of course caching some gear for resupply/future use maybe prudent.

    So options can vary from hidden non-compliance, civil disobedience, armed civil disobedience, and actual insurgency operations.

    Non-compliance and civil disobedience could easily lead to criminal and civil liabilities and maybe sufficient to lead to government searches.

    Armed civil disobedience and actual insurgent activities are in your face which could easily result in death.

    Note: Some of the armed civil disobedience leaders involved in the “I will not comply!” events in the Pacific Northwest have been subjected to numerous legal entanglements post-event.

    It is interesting that given the various Bundy events and subsequent criminal trials. The majority of convictions were those that took plea deals. Though the others spent significant time in jail and incurred great legal expense most were acquitted.

    #65303
    Profile photo of Joe (G.W.N.S.)Joe (G.W.N.S.)
    Moderator

    Another important consideration is what are your financial resources to attempt a judicial remedy.

    What skeletons are in your background that will help paint a negative public image of you?

    When taking as a whole I believe this emphasizes why working to defeat these tyrannical Bills before they can become law is so important.

    Additionally while it’s easy to rant online about “From my cold dead hands!” the reality of resistance is a much bigger and complex decision.

    Unfortunately this is a decision we may face at some point in our lives.

    To date there has been no widespread enforcement of bans, instead it has been selectively enforced around the edges of affected populations. Usually as a incidental add on to a unrelated investigation.

    This incremental attack on freedom is made worse by inclusion of grandfathering previously owned firearms in these Laws. This reduces opposition and provides a convenient excuse to accept it.

    #65305
    Profile photo of RobertRobert
    Participant

    EXCELLENT!!! Thanks!!

    I remember “back in the day” all of these folks that said they “started loading up” after Ruby Ridge, after Waco, after Lee Harvey McVeigh and the OKC mess.

    Even some very level headed types I had known for years at least prepped gear- even if they didn’t do much more. And none of these were Alex Jones “they are coming for patriots now!” types.

    You bring us some extremely important points Joe.

    Cash being a big part of this-

    *You won’t be able to possibly pay off a disgruntled person with your debit card. Once your persona non grata ALL of your financial access WILL be shut off. Seriously, ponder just that point.

    “But I have some precious metals”- good to a point, but a sudden rash of pawn shops, jewelry stores in an area reporting a ton of Kruggerands being cashed in (while probably recorded on CCTV as well) will bring attention.

    Cash- old bills need to be rotated every so often. I remember the “they are putting tracking devices in the bills!” freakout from the 90’s- the little thread in the FRN’s, everyone thought their was a microchip or some crap in there. People kept their old school bills.

    FINCEN and cash reporting laws and the move towards putting your $2. candy bar and soda at the C store on a debit card- all of these real things and consumer trends means paying cash is now a flag most places.

    I get a fair amount of people driving sometimes 8 hours or more to buy NV, thermal, etc. in person for cash. It’s interesting to see how many “old” $100’s are still out there with like minded folks. I went through about 8 years ago and over a period of a year, made mixed deposits with some old, some new bills and then later cashed checks to get the cash back out. Got to rotate those older bills, you don’t see them a lot any more and a bunch of them will be a flag.

    Phones- what is your plan for your Iphone aka electronic leash (I have one also LOL) once something happens?

    Some tech nerd sitting in a bunker in Colorado looks and your phone plus 5 other suspicious phones all converge on one location. That sounds like a missile strike in the making to me…. Got to have a plan for your phone.

    We may be going back to dead drops and old skewl stuff like that.

    Lost Siberian Huskie- answers to Wolfie, his Mommy misses him, if found please call bogus number 555-1212

    At least a dozen ways that one could go…

    Finally, understand that if it goes this route, you WILL be demonized, you WILL lose all your “comforts” in life, your lifestyle will rapidly degrade for a time, you may lose everything you worked for. But fu$# man, it’s your damn FREEDOM!!!! :good:

    www.jrhenterprises.com
    RMP, TC3, NODF, CRCD 6/14, CP 9/14. NODF, Land Nav, 6/15. Rifleman Challenge 9/15- Vanguard. FOFtactics 3/16, 10/16, 11/16, 6/17,11/17 CTT, 6/15, 11/16, , LRMC-1 9/17 GA Mobile CTT and DA 10/16, GA mobile DCH 3/18, HEAT1 3/18 Alum weekend 8/18, Opfor CLC 10/18, DA 11/18 CQBC 12/18

    #65308
    Profile photo of wheelseewheelsee
    Participant

    Good points…..

    Which is heavier - a soldier's pack or a slave's chains? Napoleon

    Strength, Honor. Maximus (Gladiator)

    If you tolerate evil, you yourself are evil.
    Col Hugo Martinez, Commander Search Bloc

    William, in The Republic - CRS/CTT 2017, HEAT 2/CQB/FonF 2018, DCH 2018

    #65309
    Profile photo of tangotango
    Participant

    All of this is very individual based.

    Make some friends guys. If you can’t stomach the risk of making friends how can you expect to risk your life for the ideal of freedom?

    If all of your time were put in to a pie chart, the Networking slice should be AT LEAST as big as your training slice, probably bigger.

    Baptême du feu
    L'appel du vide

    #65314
    Profile photo of Joe (G.W.N.S.)Joe (G.W.N.S.)
    Moderator

    …consumer trends means paying cash is now a flag most places.

    Fortunately there are some limited options still available, depending on amount of purchase. I’ll resurrect a old thread to address this, but these are getting limited as well.

    Cash- old bills need to be rotated every so often.

    Excellent point and there are other things that fall into this as well.

    Phones- what is your plan for your Iphone aka electronic leash (I have one also LOL) once something happens?

    Another thread that I’ll have to resurrect and update for latest options.

    We may be going back to dead drops and old skewl stuff like that.

    No doubt, however there are some modern twists to this as well.

    Finally, understand that if it goes this route, you WILL be demonized, you WILL lose all your “comforts” in life, your lifestyle will rapidly degrade for a time, you may lose everything you worked for. But fu$# man, it’s your damn FREEDOM!!!! :good:

    Exactly and the major point of this thread is a realistic; vice fantasy, examination of potential hardships and threats.

    All of this is very individual based.

    These are the things that must be addressed by everyone ahead of time or any “Group” will be rolled up very quickly! ;-)

    Any people you plan on working with will need to address this to the others satisfaction or its a recipe for failure.

    Consider the old question of how many people can you call on in the middle of the night, telling them to bring shovels, and with no questions asked will actually show up! :yes:

    #65319
    Profile photo of Joe (G.W.N.S.)Joe (G.W.N.S.)
    Moderator
    #65324
    Profile photo of RobertRobert
    Participant

    Any people you plan on working with will need to address this to the others satisfaction or its a recipe for failure.

    If I had $100. for every friend I’ve had to walk away from over the last couple decades because they started talking about doing dumb shit… Just TALK is enough with some people who run their damn mouths too much!

    You really have to be both careful and ruthless when it comes to associates.

    www.jrhenterprises.com
    RMP, TC3, NODF, CRCD 6/14, CP 9/14. NODF, Land Nav, 6/15. Rifleman Challenge 9/15- Vanguard. FOFtactics 3/16, 10/16, 11/16, 6/17,11/17 CTT, 6/15, 11/16, , LRMC-1 9/17 GA Mobile CTT and DA 10/16, GA mobile DCH 3/18, HEAT1 3/18 Alum weekend 8/18, Opfor CLC 10/18, DA 11/18 CQBC 12/18

    #65325
    Profile photo of Joe (G.W.N.S.)Joe (G.W.N.S.)
    Moderator

    Just TALK…

    No doubt.

    Sketchy marriages!

    If they can’t deal with normal adversity of family life, what hope is there to deal with the worst imaginable situations of life and death.

    #65329
    Profile photo of RampantRaptorrampantraptor
    Participant

    Any people you plan on working with will need to address this to the others satisfaction or its a recipe for failure.

    If I had $100. for every friend I’ve had to walk away from over the last couple decades because they started talking about doing dumb shit… Just TALK is enough with some people who run their damn mouths too much!

    You really have to be both careful and ruthless when it comes to associates.

    If they talk about doing shady shit and sound way too excited about it, keep a safe distance. Anyone who takes this SHTF talk seriously knows it sucks way too hard to get excited over.

    If they start bragging to you about all the shady shit they do, keep a safe distance, they’re probably a bullshitter and either way they’re bound to get snatched up by someone who actually is interested in hearing about it.

    If they’re smart enough to keep a safe distance from you before they know you, you might have someone worth working with. Anyone worth associating with for hard times should have some rudimentary understanding of compartmentalization of information.

    The old adage of the guy who is the first to talk about blowing shit up is probably a fed is still basically true, they go after the low-lying fruits. Think about how many of these domestic radical Islamists wind up actually being homeless, mentally ill, etc.

    Honestly the intelligence/counterintelligence part of things scares me more than the thought of domestic armed conflict itself.

    When it comes to phones, just get used to not having them if things go south. Between GPS tracking, metadata, etc., you’re literally giving the enemy grid coordinates to blow your ass to bits.

    #RaqqaSummer2017
    - - -
    Jîn, Jiyan, Azadî

    #65342
    Profile photo of Max VelocityMax
    Keymaster

    This discussion raises a lot of philosophical points. I see Feinstein has reintroduced a 2019 gun ban at the federal level. So to cut through any State-specific issues, and thus remove the factor of moving State, let’s just assume that goes through.

    So now all your guns and mags are banned.

    There was a certain amount of talk before about what non-compliance may look like, and the reality, risks and effect of that, and tying that in with Liberty. To simplify this, before we go any further down the track of specific trade-craft to become an non-compliant outlaw, let’s look at this from a birds-eye perspective:

    America is already in serious trouble with the nut-jobbery we see in politics and society. At least half of the population (more) is mentally toast (i.e. severe un-American anti-Liberty big-government-statist psychological issues).

    The moment a ‘law’ is passed that outlaws the practical application of the 2A, America as a Constitutional Republic is toast (not getting into a debate here on how toast it is or is not now).

    All unconstitutional laws are, of course, not laws. However, putting aside your 1776 fantasy, what difference, at that point, does the Constitution make (see what I did there?). Law enforcement will do what law enforcement is supposed to do, which is enforce laws. That is the major sticking point with law enforcement. Unless of course they don’t, which we can look at more below.

    So the moment you become non-compliant to the new ‘laws’, you have effectively lost all liberty anyway. You are an outlaw, and at some point you and/or your family will pay anything up to the ultimate price i.e. killed by law enforcement. You may consider that you are standing for Liberty and America, but as an individual you have lost the ability to be free, and you can no longer make a living for your family. Arguably you can, if the new law is not directly applied to you initially, but if you are harboring illegal weapons, it is either only a matter of time, or potential, that you will be caught and subject to the ‘justice’ system or arbitrary death in a raid.

    That is why as an individual it is pointless. Why even talk about tradecraft and all that? You want to be an impending or actual outlaw? You want to be subject to potential or actual SWAT raids? You want to be arrested at a traffic stop?

    Because the point is that the moment that law is passed, you most definitely do not live in the America you think you live in. As an individual you have no choice but to comply. Yes, you may bury some equipment but you can never again use it or train with it.

    The only hope lies with group action. As an individual you are nothing. The moment such laws are passed, it all depends on what remains of the quality of middle America. I personally have a family and young children. I am not going to subject myself and them to potential no-knock raids by poorly trained SWAT teams in the middle of the night. At the point this happens it is all over. Hand that shit over. Get another job.

    The only hope lies in mass non-compliance, And I don’t mean a bunch of individuals hiding stuff. It goes back to what I have said before – taking a stand in every day life. So either people stand-up on mass, or just hand those guns in.

    It ultimately comes back to what is left of the character of America, and how much anyone actually gives a shit about Liberty and the Constitutional Republic. Law enforcement are heavily tied in to salary and pensions. For example, myself as a Liberty-loving legal immigrant, what am I supposed to do if my adopted country suddenly shows that it has lost all moral character? Am I supposed to fight that on my own at the expense of death and loss of Liberty for myself and my family? Hell no.

    So I don’t believe in hiding. I believe in visible and loud non-compliance until the ‘law’ is set right. Only as a large enough group, with law-enforcement standing on the side of Liberty and their actual oaths, will allow that to happen. No, I am not talking about shooting. Shoot who? The only people to shoot are the law-enforcement breaking down your door, and what is the point if that? You die, some of them die, and they are not the ones responsible for this. The ones responsible are the idiots that vote the idiots into office. What can you do about that? Nothing.

    The only way would be for mass protests that actually made a change to any Unconstitutional laws that were passed. Either America is worth it, and Americans will stand up for it beyond arguing and posting memes on FB, or it will die with a whimper.

    #65343
    Profile photo of HessianHessian
    Participant

    I agree with Max that it will take a collective to get through such a situation and not individual.

    Also it may be best to get off of the current com grid instead of burner phones.

    https://www.gotenna.com/ is very interesting using a mesh network and avoids your text msg traffic on the current grid or system. A group has tested these units and with a drone has gotten up to 15 miles of coverage in remote and urban locations.

    #65344
    Profile photo of Joe (G.W.N.S.)Joe (G.W.N.S.)
    Moderator

    Also it may be best to get off of the current com grid instead of burner phones

    Everything has a time and place.

    You need your own mesh network, however even gotenna has a place. ;-)

    Working as part of a larger effort is nothing new, but certainly needs emphasis.

    Civil Disobedience

    #65345
    Profile photo of JohnnyMacJohnnyMac
    Participant

    Something not mentioned:

    There are so many people out there who have completely uninformed opinions and are just regurgitating what they hear from liberal talking heads. Probably EVEN more common are the people who are either apathetic to gun rights or just “aren’t sure” how they feel about them.

    I would think the best thing we can do is invite people, especially people with no experience, to the range whenever possible. It’s not to do any flashy training (or even basic marksmanship). Just strictly a safe and FUN familiarization fire. I’ve had some really interesting experiences taking people to the range and have often made people more open to (or at least more understanding of) gun rights/ownership.

    Take a person to the range, be articulate, encouraging and show them a good time, take a picture of them so they can show their friends. They probably won’t get into tactical training or might not ever own a gun, but if you did your job well, you might have diffused an opponent of the cause (or maybe even made an ALLY).

    Hearts and minds people…it’s a cliche, but it is a real thing lol.

    #65347
    Profile photo of Joe (G.W.N.S.)Joe (G.W.N.S.)
    Moderator

    Hearts and minds people…it’s a cliche, but it is a real thing lol.

    Agreed and I am known within my sphere of influence as a go to guy. This is beyond my frequent invitations.

    Kids to adults. :yes:

    #65348
    Profile photo of RobertRobert
    Participant

    Max made a good point about “shoot who?” type of thing.

    Almost every LEO I’ve talked to in 3 decades is drastically against gun control.

    A few small few don’t understand and really do buy into the “civies shouldn’t have guns” mentality but they are rare.

    In the 90’s an LEO from Arizona wrote a booklet called “Operation Vampire Killer 2000” which was directed towards other LEO’s that educated them about how gun confiscation was wrong and went into the bigger plans of the NWO, etc.

    To do something like that today, LEAVING OUT any NWO references but focusing on gun rights, that any gun ban is unlawful, etc. would be crucial for us to consider at this point.

    LEOs will be told by the libs and big gubmint types that we view them as an enemy, which isn’t correctly true. They need to be educated on that.

    Basically we need to get some good info out there like that or they will get their BS info from sources like Morris Sleeze and the anti Southern not at all about Poverty unLaw center.

    Can’t be all just beating chest about the Constitution also, needs to have some practical applications outlined in there- “you don’t have to risk your life trying to enforce an unlawful gun ban” type bullet points.

    www.jrhenterprises.com
    RMP, TC3, NODF, CRCD 6/14, CP 9/14. NODF, Land Nav, 6/15. Rifleman Challenge 9/15- Vanguard. FOFtactics 3/16, 10/16, 11/16, 6/17,11/17 CTT, 6/15, 11/16, , LRMC-1 9/17 GA Mobile CTT and DA 10/16, GA mobile DCH 3/18, HEAT1 3/18 Alum weekend 8/18, Opfor CLC 10/18, DA 11/18 CQBC 12/18

    #65349
    Profile photo of RobertRobert
    Participant

    Something to consider re: non compliance.

    Remember when “Obamacare” was launched? The word was put out “everyone” had to do this, blah blah blah. At one point not long after the news said like only a couple hundred thousand people did it. Then LATER they through out the propaganda of how everyone was signing up, oh the number are so great, blah blah blah. BS. I doubt it ever got that high.

    They know how to influence the news. The day after any ban comes out, they will have bus loads of volunteers coming out with weapons for the cameras and news crews to film. Just like the bused in PAID “protestors” we have all come to know and hate from all the leftist rallies. There will be a lot of quasi liberty minded types (fakes and quislings) talking how this is the right thing to do. But the numbers WILL be low and the real turn ins will be even lower. Don’t despair, hold out.

    More than likely AFTER any ban is passed their will be a last minute compromise that will state “if people register these with their local LEO they can keep them” (for now). Be careful with that BS also- ask anyone from California.

    Just like the “obamacare” website and push push push to get that done, it will be about collecting data at first.

    www.jrhenterprises.com
    RMP, TC3, NODF, CRCD 6/14, CP 9/14. NODF, Land Nav, 6/15. Rifleman Challenge 9/15- Vanguard. FOFtactics 3/16, 10/16, 11/16, 6/17,11/17 CTT, 6/15, 11/16, , LRMC-1 9/17 GA Mobile CTT and DA 10/16, GA mobile DCH 3/18, HEAT1 3/18 Alum weekend 8/18, Opfor CLC 10/18, DA 11/18 CQBC 12/18

    #65350
    Profile photo of RoadkillRoadkill
    Participant

    In Colorado right now, I think it’s Boulder has passed a law if you live in the city limits you have to register your black rifles. As of now only a little over 300 have complied out of a population of over 110,000. I found this in odds and sods on survival blog. There is a lawsuit going forward calling law unconstitutional.

    RS/CTT Nov 16
    HEAT1 Aug18

    #65351
    Profile photo of Joe (G.W.N.S.)Joe (G.W.N.S.)
    Moderator

    Until we actually see a Bill there is no telling what is actually in it, but supposedly previous firearms are grandfathered and even can be transfered.

    Magazines die with you!

    Even some nuts talking about Trusts to get around that. :wacko:

    Personally if passed I prefer no Grandfather clause since it will dilute opposition.

    Can’t be all just beating chest about the Constitution also, needs to have some practical applications outlined in there- “you don’t have to risk your life trying to enforce an unlawful gun ban” type bullet points.

    Given how much is already infringed on entire Constitution and lip service regarding equal justice under the law. I think the “God giving” or Natural Right Argument to be superior to most beyond lip service to constitutional arguments once a ban is in place.

    In regards to Law Enforcement the current lunatic “WRSA” type chest beating against “evil” LEO’s in general to be very counterproductive.

    We will never stop it, but I am not picking a fight with potential allies, particularly when some maybe my future informants. ;-)

    They know how to influence the news.

    Propaganda will come in many forms to include infomercials on how to turn in Husbands, Wives, family, and friends for “their safety as well as yours!”

    #65352
    Profile photo of Joe (G.W.N.S.)Joe (G.W.N.S.)
    Moderator

    Another form of non-compliance that “maybe” unforeseen is ignoring all gun laws after passage of such a “Ban!”

    If you are going to prison for owning a banned item anyway, why not ignore all NFA laws. Converting a firearm to reliable fullauto is not easy, but it isn’t “rocket science” either. Not to mention SBR/SBS, suppressors, etc…

    This is one of many unforeseen complications that will likely happen.

    It wasn’t long after implementation of import ban that Chinese Type 56 rifles began to be smuggled into US.

    #65354
    Profile photo of tangotango
    Participant

    Max made a good point about “shoot who?” type of thing.

    Almost every LEO I’ve talked to in 3 decades is drastically against gun control.

    A few small few don’t understand and really do buy into the “civies shouldn’t have guns” mentality but they are rare.

    In the 90’s an LEO from Arizona wrote a booklet called “Operation Vampire Killer 2000” which was directed towards other LEO’s that educated them about how gun confiscation was wrong and went into the bigger plans of the NWO, etc.

    To do something like that today, LEAVING OUT any NWO references but focusing on gun rights, that any gun ban is unlawful, etc. would be crucial for us to consider at this point.

    LEOs will be told by the libs and big gubmint types that we view them as an enemy, which isn’t correctly true. They need to be educated on that.

    Basically we need to get some good info out there like that or they will get their BS info from sources like Morris Sleeze and the anti Southern not at all about Poverty unLaw center.

    Can’t be all just beating chest about the Constitution also, needs to have some practical applications outlined in there- “you don’t have to risk your life trying to enforce an unlawful gun ban” type bullet points.

    Sounds like: Leadership. Community involvement.

    :mail: :whistle:

    Baptême du feu
    L'appel du vide

    #65355
    Profile photo of wheelseewheelsee
    Participant

    Given how much is already infringed on entire Constitution and lip service regarding equal justice under the law. I think the “God giving” or Natural Right Argument to be superior to most beyond lip service to constitutional arguments once a ban is in place.

    THIS ^^^^

    Why do so many focus on the Constitution when the Declaration of Independence specifically references “Natural rights”??

    Because, IMHO, the vast majority of people fear freedom…..and I’m NOT talking about “freedom” as 95% understand it….. I’m talking about the freedom to do, say, think whatever one wants to while understanding the responsibilities and consequences of same.

    Freedom to drink and drive…go for it. You cause a wreck, you pay for it. You kill someone, your life is forfeited within 30 days.

    Freedom to do drugs…..go for it. It causes chest pain or heart attack, no healthcare unless out of your pocket. You OD, same thing.

    Laws that are only “malum in se” versus “malum prohibitum”

    Freedom to associate (or not) with whom you choose.

    Taxes – everyone pays.

    Emergency Department – everyone pays….yes, we’ll assess before, but no emergency, pay upfront (but see above)

    Social services – back into the churches or civic organizations…..but NOT through taxes

    Yeah, I know I don’t have many answers but being constantly bent over ain’t working either……..

    Which is heavier - a soldier's pack or a slave's chains? Napoleon

    Strength, Honor. Maximus (Gladiator)

    If you tolerate evil, you yourself are evil.
    Col Hugo Martinez, Commander Search Bloc

    William, in The Republic - CRS/CTT 2017, HEAT 2/CQB/FonF 2018, DCH 2018

    #65357
    Profile photo of LinemanLineman
    Participant

    It’s all quite the conundrum isn’t it…Don’t move because it will just follow you, but don’t fight unless you have a majority on your side…Which leads to another conundrum in that is the leader of the majority a fed trying to get you all killed by defying the evil…My solution is still the same and has been a slow progress but still moving forward…I know it’s been vilified on here so won’t bring it up again but anyone that cares to know can private msg me…

    #65358
    Profile photo of LinemanLineman
    Participant

    I would just say on the tax thing that only a sales tax and Tariffs should be allowed…All other tax is forced theft…

    #65359
    Profile photo of RampantRaptorrampantraptor
    Participant

    I’d say the disposition of police regarding firearms depends on the area. Here in Baltimore I’ve met a number of cops that are fine with gun control, or act sketched out if you tell them you own an AR-15 as if you’re already doing something legally dubious. Remember there are something like 18,000 police departments across the country, each is a different animal. There are going to be cultural differences in policing, which is probably why us city folks are more skeptical of our police than you small-town folks are.

    Going all ACAB is counterproductive, some are as gun-friendly and liberty-minded as the rest of us and there’s no point in eliminating potential allies. If SHTF, those LEO that flip would be the ones with the experience in maintaining the peace. That being said, I am a bit aloof with police, especially ones I don’t know. I don’t tell them more than they need to know, because they’re still police and at the end of the day enforcing laws is their job.

    A natural rights argument or a “God-given” rights argument can be good in your area, it all really depends on your audience. Be able to attack it from different angles, especially if you live in an area where the Constitution is already regarded as little more than a piece of paper. I can easily make a hard-left case for guns if I really want to throw off a liberal who expects me to be some stereotypical right-wing redneck. Here in Baltimore I’m more apt to drive home the point that we shouldn’t disarm the working class, etc.

    Alluding to what Joe said, if guns are banned entirely then I wouldn’t be surprised if we saw more full-auto homemade firearms hitting the streets. There was a gun buyback in Baltimore recently and everyone lost their shit because someone turned in a spent AT4 tube, but what caught my eye was the homemade SMG seated next to it. Hell, I just saw a post on The Firearm Blog about a guy making a drop-in auto sear for an AR out of a coat hanger.

    Without effective collective action the most anyone would be able to do is stockpile their now-illegal firearms until some black swan event, and even then you’d be an insurgent group, not a friendly armed neighborhood watch working with the sheriff or whatever the old militia fantasy is. By that point it’s very possible civilian disarmament will have been normalized as it is in Europe so restoring gun rights wouldn’t even be on the table, other factors that led to the conflict would predominate.

    #RaqqaSummer2017
    - - -
    Jîn, Jiyan, Azadî

    #65361
    Profile photo of Joe (G.W.N.S.)Joe (G.W.N.S.)
    Moderator

    …majority on your side

    I would be quite happy with a vocal minority willing to participate in Armed Civil Disobedience! ;-)

    As demonstrated in the “I will not comply!” rallies in the Pacific Northwest.

    By that point it’s very possible civilian disarmament will have been normalized…

    We can’t wait that long which shows the problem with hiding beyond prudent caches.

    This becomes a factor in those always wanting to buy time for preparation, a point comes where you have to go with what you got.

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