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Gunowner living with Felon in VA?

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This topic contains 14 replies, has 7 voices, and was last updated by Profile photo of Dave37 dave37 5 months, 2 weeks ago.

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  • #62028
    Profile photo of Max Velocity
    Max
    Keymaster

    Is this legal?

    What are the considerations over ‘possession’ etc?

    ‘Asking for a friend.’ B-) No really, I am.

    #62035
    Profile photo of SeanT
    SeanT
    Moderator

    Not a lawyer blah blah… Be very careful because the issue is called constructive possession. The felon can get burned in many ways.

    A conviction for knowingly and intentionally possessing a
    firearm after having been convicted of a felony, see Code
    18.2-308.2, requires proof beyond a reasonable doubt of either
    actual or constructive possession of the firearm. See Blake v.
    Commonwealth, 15 Va. App. 706, 708, 427 S.E.2d 219, 220 (1993).

    More Detail

    Federal Detail

    #62037
    Profile photo of Dark Knight Scott
    Scott G
    Participant

    Annecdotal: I remember when G. Gordon Liddy had a radio show (yes I am old). He would joke about not being able to own guns, but say that Mrs. Liddy had a nice collection.
    This is of no help, but I am amazed my old brain could pull out the memory!

    Northern VA Area

    CRCD #1 Alumnus

    #62039
    Profile photo of Joe (G.W.N.S.)
    Joe (G.W.N.S.)
    Moderator

    This is of no help, but I am amazed my old brain could pull out the memory!

    When this subject comes up G.Gordon Liddy is my first thought. ;-)

    Generally speaking are the firearms readily accessible to the Felon?

    For most locations this would be the primary first consideration. Locked up in a gun safe that the Felon doesn’t have access to, or in direct control of legal owner vice in a gun cabinet or closet.

    Is the Felon still on probation and subject to random searches of his or her residence?

    What is the likelihood of continued criminal activity that would bring attention to this situation?

    Existence of individuals with a vendetta against the parties involved that are aware of firearms in the home is another consideration.

    So it isn’t completely clear cut unless specific locations laws address it, but preventing direct access should be sufficient.

    Finally since laws are not always clear to those that enforce them it could cause problems regardless of ultimate legality.

    #62041
    Profile photo of Max Velocity
    Max
    Keymaster

    I don’t know the offense, but from what I was told it was ‘long time ago, no jailtime.’ Offender is an older woman. Thinking something like fraud. So this is not ‘gangsta’ current or rapist real bad felony stuff.

    So if the felon is not a threat, what measures make it legally safe for a gunowning homeowner?

    #62042
    Profile photo of A_A_Ron2guns
    A_A_Ron2guns
    Participant

    There would have to be a level of immediacy or on going continued possession. In other words the felon is holding the gun or has knowledge of it, access to it and permission to obtain it.

    Simply living with a person who is a felon and having guns is not a crime nor would the felon be in danger of being convicted so long as the legal owner could simply say “they weren’t allowed to touch or have access to it.”

    I know in my jurisdiction there would be no conviction without DNA evidence and probably a witness or two. There would also have to be some pretty serious chargers even before felon in possession got tacked on. Ie a murder, drug house, human trafficking etc.

    Constructive possession is an easy charge to bring, kinda like conspiracy, but usually gets dismissed once there’s some statements and lawyers to help narrow an actual possessor down.

    Here’s an example. Car drives with lights off at night. Traffic stop. There’s 4 felons in a car. Car smells like PCP/weed. One gun in the center console. No ones talking cuz snitching is bad. Everyone gets a ride to jail. 4 counts of felon in possession and one traffic violation. Once they turn on each other and it comes out it all belongs to the driver then only he gets prosecuted.

    Old couple living in the same house and granny did some hinky shit back in the day and grandpa owns an old ruger? No prosecuting attorney would touch that case with a ten foot pole. Except maybe in NYC or LA cuz there’s no real criminals there!

    You are what you do, when it counts. -The Masao

    Not the other Aaron's in this industry!

    #62043
    Profile photo of A_A_Ron2guns
    A_A_Ron2guns
    Participant

    You know I have a cell phone right?!

    You are what you do, when it counts. -The Masao

    Not the other Aaron's in this industry!

    #62045
    Profile photo of SeanT
    SeanT
    Moderator

    Max, who is your concern for? The felon or the other party?
    In VA this applies to the firearm owner:
    VA Code

    The felon likely has the most jeopardy especially because if the felon knows there are firearms are present, one of the prongs of the proof is easy for the prosecutor if they want to push the charge. The other prong, dominion and control , is a very big gray area and not one I would want to step near if I was a prohibited person.

    In one simple example I can think of: CCW comes home and doesn’t put gun from on body to locked in safe in one move, but instead puts it down to go to the can…
    There would have to be a different suspicion of some crime for the law to be made aware of the situation but weird shit happens all the time.

    #62048
    Profile photo of Max Velocity
    Max
    Keymaster

    Person wishes to arm for home defense but possibly mother may be moving in with old felony.

    It’s a real moral dilemma: discrimination and curtailing right to self defense of felons who have served punishment as determined by judicial system. And key point: are not an ongoing threat such as sex offender or currently involved in illegal activity.

    Then, said family member moves in with young family, potentially obstructing their right to defend themselves and kids.

    #62049
    Profile photo of A_A_Ron2guns
    A_A_Ron2guns
    Participant

    The sticking point in the above code is intent. If there’s no intent by the actual owner there’s no crime.

    You are what you do, when it counts. -The Masao

    Not the other Aaron's in this industry!

    #62051
    Profile photo of A_A_Ron2guns
    A_A_Ron2guns
    Participant

    Max

    The situation you’ve described would honestly not give me pause to own a firearm.

    The mother (I’ll stop calling her a felon I’m sure she’s more than that) would not have possession unless she actually picked it up and used it.

    Even in that situation preemption would be in effect basically stating that while she possessed the weapon for a brief moment she did so to lawful defend herself or her kids/grand kids.

    Just because she has a felony conviction does not mean she gives up her right to self defense or to that of others. She could also petition to have her rights restored. I’m not sure how to do that however.

    A safe in my mind would be sufficient to prove there was no intent to provide the mother with a firearm as would statements from the owner, mother, other household members etc.

    There’s just way too much on the side of the owner to allow for a charge to go forward.

    As always this isn’t legal advice, contact a lawyer etc.

    You are what you do, when it counts. -The Masao

    Not the other Aaron's in this industry!

    #62053
    Profile photo of A_A_Ron2guns
    A_A_Ron2guns
    Participant

    PS, I’m for full restoration of rights once all legal obligations are completed. Especially for non violent felonies. We can’t expect people to reintegrate with out giving them the means to do so.

    If there’s more personal questions I can help with you can PM me.

    I’M NOT A LAWYER

    You are what you do, when it counts. -The Masao

    Not the other Aaron's in this industry!

    #62054
    Profile photo of Joe (G.W.N.S.)
    Joe (G.W.N.S.)
    Moderator

    I would go the gun safe/Security Cabinet route and feel confident there isn’t much to be concerned about.

    Security Cabinets start for around $80.00 at Walmart, in reality they are almost as good as a safe except for fires.

    Yea if you get on someone in authorities “shit list” we can all be hit with some crime(s), but based on Max’s description it is unlikely.

    #62068
    Profile photo of Greg W
    gregw
    Participant

    May be worth contacting a local gun law firm. It is possible to have gun rights re-instated in some cases which would fix the problem.

    #62097
    Profile photo of Dave37
    dave37
    Participant

    I wouldn’t worry too much about it. A DA would have to be really mad at Grandma to prosecute that one, in the absence of any other crime, assuming it is a generally gun friendly jurisdiction.

    Texas CTT/Mobility 2017, Missouri 1 Day CQB 2017, Texas HEAT 2 2018

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