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Major Blow to Illinois 2A Rights

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This topic contains 29 replies, has 11 voices, and was last updated by Profile photo of RampantRaptor rampantraptor 11 months ago.

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  • #56262
    Profile photo of JohnnyMac
    JohnnyMac
    Participant

    http://www.sj-r.com/news/20180228/collection-of-gun-control-bills-passes-out-of-illinois-house

    Multiple state house bills have passed that restrict rights, all the governor has to do is sign them into law.

    #56393
    Profile photo of jmj
    jmj
    Participant

    Can lower Illinois reverse secesh Chicagoland, then tar and feather all the goons in Springfield?

    #56438
    Profile photo of RampantRaptor
    rampantraptor
    Participant

    This is what scares me – the anti-gunners don’t really need the Feds to do gun control, they can just peel the states back one by one until there are enough states with disarmed people that no one has any energy left to fight it at the federal level.

    #RaqqaSummer2017
    - - -
    Jîn, Jiyan, Azadî

    #56440
    Profile photo of Max Velocity
    Max
    Keymaster

    I get a little confused by the reactions I see. I see comments along the lines as ‘this is happening, how will I/we adapt, where will I move to, how will I work with 10 round mags, etc.’

    What happened to the law of the land and the 2A? Yes I know it is already infringed but when, if ever, will Americans just say ‘NO’ and refuse to comply? I mean the few of us here who remain Americans not just in name, but in reality, separaye from the mass of unworthy helots.

    We all talk about freedom not being free and it isn’t. At some point, as it is taken away, it has to be stood up for. There is a cost. Tyranny will roll. We are already tax serfs and the 2A is infringed, but the status quo is ‘fine.’

    I jumped into America thinking it was a free country and I find the water is boiling and the frog is nearly cooked. WTF?

    So what if WV suddenly outlaws the AR? Who is coming to the VTC to train? What if?

    I know we are all individuals out there and if we refuse to comply with these potentailly unlawful laws, we risk being taken down one by one and losing our livelihood amd whatever freedom we have left. But once weapons are gone, they will not come back.

    So what is the solution here? Active refusal to comply with unconstitutional laws? But not as individuals, as a group? What are thw solutions here? Would they be without risk to life, liberty and property? I think not.

    There are bigger issues here that I must commnent on when I am at.my desk. Law enforcement complying with tyranny. This is complex and we need to understand that many cops are good individuals but the nature of the job is to enforce extant law. It is mostly not to protect, whatever they may believe, but to enforce compliance and to ensure taxes are paid and enforced. This is the nature of the helot system we live in and the way LE has evolved.

    If further unlawful laws are passed, there needs to be massive civil disobedience or we can just give up on being American. As part of that, taxes must be non-complied. Property tax is theft and gives the lie to private property ownership. This shit has to end.

    #56442
    Profile photo of JohnnyMac
    JohnnyMac
    Participant

    Black flag patch at the ready @Max

    #56445
    Profile photo of Dimitri Povozhaev (NE Ohio)
    ctpelok
    Participant

    2A is the only true deterrent for many evil things.
    I was lucky to get out of the Soviet Union in 1991.
    The last thing on earth I want is the communists rule.
    Compliance…F-that.

    Dimitri P.

    #56447
    Profile photo of Roadkill
    Roadkill
    Participant

    Max you hit the nail on the head. When the police enforce unconstitutional laws they become enemies. All law enforcement takes the same oath to uphold the constitution but are told to break that oath daily by enforcing bad law. My police friends need to draw the line. This is a terrible situation for them. Maybe be the gray man in the blue world.

    RS/CTT Nov 16
    HEAT1 Aug18

    #56579
    Profile photo of Daniel
    Daniel
    Participant

    This is my home and I won’t comply. No bluster or chest thumping – I’m simply not going to do whatever it is they decide I need to do to avoid a felony. None of this is law *yet* but word is the governor will roll over.

    I like my life and am not of a mind to “go get the bastards”, although previous intel exercises have revealed plenty of ways to do that. Still, I won’t comply and won’t go down quietly for a felony – it’ll suck knowing a simple traffic stop means “today is the day”.

    Added spice is the fact that I’m friends with a number of city and county police officers and court officials and have been to their homes to shoot. I guess we’ll see how “friend” is defined in these times. The cat’s out of the bag and there won’t be any “staying gray”, whatever that means. Interesting days…

    #56723
    Profile photo of wheelsee
    wheelsee
    Participant

    Max you hit the nail on the head. When the police enforce unconstitutional laws they become enemies. All law enforcement takes the same oath to uphold the constitution but are told to break that oath daily by enforcing bad law. My police friends need to draw the line. This is a terrible situation for them. Maybe be the gray man in the blue world.

    In the 90’s, we (as SO deputies, with our particular sheriff) had the responsibility to exercise good judgment. The vast number of traffic stops and calls that I responded to/was involved in did NOT result in a ticket but rather was “HBO” (call sign, handled by officer). The change from peace officer to LEO was underway though.

    Think of the original call for Freddie Gray (Maryland) – selling “loosies” – loose cigarettes. The end result was loss of life (his, and others IIRC), property damage, civil unrest, etc. And why?? because of selling loose cigarettes (If I have this wrong, someone please correct me).

    Which is heavier - a soldier's pack or a slave's chains? Napoleon

    Strength, Honor. Maximus (Gladiator)

    If you tolerate evil, you yourself are evil.
    Col Hugo Martinez, Commander Search Bloc

    William, in The Republic - CRS/CTT 2017, HEAT 2/CQB/FonF 2018, DCH 2018

    #56947
    Profile photo of RampantRaptor
    rampantraptor
    Participant

    You’re a smidge off with Freddie Gray, he got detained for possessing a switchblade (which are illegal in Baltimore), it was Eric Garner that was strangled to death by NYPD for selling loosies. In both cases stupid, unnecessary deaths. Again the problem is this shift of police existing to keep the peace towards being a warrior cop and/or collecting revenue for their jurisdiction. If my memory serves me right in Ferguson a full third of the population had arrest warrants for minor infractions like unmowed lawns or too many cars in their own driveways.

    But anyways, back to the original point.

    NRA Asks Supporters To Take Action As Illinois Votes On Gun Control Bill

    So I’m not sure if you guys have been following this but Illinois is considering legislation that not only would ban gun sales to those under 21 years of age but also mandate that those under 21 surrender their firearms. Illinois has a Republican governor so I’m doubtful this would pass as-is and there’s already questions as to how this would actually work without going door to door, but if they’re willing to push this in Illinois we need to be aware they might try to push it in even more liberal states too.

    And they say they don’t want to take our guns away… B-)

    #RaqqaSummer2017
    - - -
    Jîn, Jiyan, Azadî

    #56948
    Profile photo of wheelsee
    wheelsee
    Participant

    You’re a smidge off with Freddie Gray, he got detained for possessing a switchblade (which are illegal in Baltimore), it was Eric Garner that was strangled to death by NYPD for selling loosies. In both cases stupid, unnecessary deaths. Again the problem is this shift of police existing to keep the peace towards being a warrior cop and/or collecting revenue for their jurisdiction.

    But anyways, back to the original point.

    :good: Thanks for the correction…. ;-)

    Which is heavier - a soldier's pack or a slave's chains? Napoleon

    Strength, Honor. Maximus (Gladiator)

    If you tolerate evil, you yourself are evil.
    Col Hugo Martinez, Commander Search Bloc

    William, in The Republic - CRS/CTT 2017, HEAT 2/CQB/FonF 2018, DCH 2018

    #56950
    Profile photo of WTL
    veritas556
    Participant

    Probably too political for here but… amused at how many are so intent on making sure they stay on the “right side of the law” when it comes to bending over in the face of blatant violations of the foundational precepts of our nation. Let’s be real, unless there is a literal gun to your head, you/we aren’t gonna do shit. And then it’s too late. Our bettors fought (thankfully) over far less. But they didn’t have microwaves, Xbox and 401ks. Your kids will thank you? Something to think about…

    #56953
    Profile photo of Joe (G.W.N.S.)
    Joe (G.W.N.S.)
    Moderator

    Probably too political for here but…

    Get over yourself, many American’s around the nation are just ignoring such laws at great personal risk!

    Our bettors fought (thankfully) over far less.

    Who are these so called “bettors?”

    The founding fathers?

    This gradual loss of freedom been happening for a long time with plenty of blame to go around. Even the founders were pretty screwed up!

    Times coming to separate the chaff soon enough!

    #56954
    Profile photo of WTL
    veritas556
    Participant

    I don’t have to “get over myself” because I didn’t exclude myself from said bending over. Admission of guilt, that sufficiently self-deprecating for you? Or is your “ego-detector” set on sensitive?

    If you are in NY and hiding that 30 rd. mag under your couch you are doing SUCH a service to freedom. I can’t even. Thank you. Thank you. How about a big giant FU for not marching on Albany? But no, we are civilized and as such shall march quietly with our chains… what is it… May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen…

    And yes, our founders were certainly our bettors in the sense they understood, articulated and fought for a version of freedom we pay lip service to. If you work and own property today you are a virtual slave to the gov’t.

    And yes, the blame does go around so I’m not sure which part of my previous post you object to. But hey, it’s been going on for so long and no one specifically is responsible (certainly no one here) so therefore no one will ever take responsibility. That’s how we end up in a ditch.

    #56955
    Profile photo of Max Velocity
    Max
    Keymaster

    I think veritas makes the right points. See my earlier post in this thread.

    American Liberty is a myth.

    The 2A is infringed

    We are tax serfs. Massive taxation levels, property tax is theft etc.

    It’s bullshit.

    #56956
    Profile photo of Joe (G.W.N.S.)
    Joe (G.W.N.S.)
    Moderator

    How about a big giant FU for not marching on Albany?

    Have you marched/conducted public acts of Civil Disobedience?

    …so I’m not sure which part of my previous post you even object to.

    What specifically have you done to make things better! ;-)

    This defeatist “unless there is a literal gun to your head” crap doesn’t help things.

    I’ve been active politically and in my community since my military retirement, voted in every election since becoming of age to include letters and actual meetings with my Representatives. I support many community improvement programs with both time and money. I teach firearms safety/use for youth and adults regularly. I encourage self sufficient lifestyle to all I encounter and much more.

    My community is better now than when I started, though still much work to do.

    …no one specifically is responsible…

    Everyone is responsible to include the founding fathers who allowed things to start a slide to tyranny from pretty much the beginning.

    American Liberty is a myth.

    The 2A is infringed

    We are tax serfs. Massive taxation levels, property tax is theft etc.

    Yes and you have made tangible efforts to educate and improve American readiness.

    I think veritas makes the right points.

    I am looking for things more constructive, Veritas’ Thread Got Team? “Manus Manum Lavat” was closer to this, but not so much here.

    Am I being too sensitive? Maybe. B-)

    Dazzle us with answers, help us prepare, or do something constructive.

    #56957
    Profile photo of Max Velocity
    Max
    Keymaster

    There isn’t anything anyone can do. Isn’t that the point. The only way to get anything done would be massive civil disobedience in terms of 2A infringement and non-payment of taxes. Individuals can do nothing. And there is no mass movement, everyone is too comfortable.

    The Left is not an option, in the middle we are spending all our time trying to make money to feed our kids while being extorted to pay for others to do nothing i.e wealth redistribution. Also, property tax gives the lie to property ownership.

    The ‘conservatives’ will not help, they are too busy being loyal slaves to tyranny i.e. mindlessly supporting anything that can vaguely be presented as patriotic (more a worship of US military might) and loyally supporting anything LE does, because ‘thin blue line’ not minding the fact that the primary purpose is enforcement of tyrannical laws, primarily revenue collection. And who will enforce more gun laws?

    It’s a shit show. Most of us are not expendable assets and although we are not comfortable, we make decisions every day to choose weakness and submission because we are trying to pay the taxes and raise our children.

    This is primarily the point – I understand it, but most do not. I bought what it said on the tin and jumped, to my surprise, into the boiling water with the rest of you frogs. America is not the land of the Constitution and Founding Fathers as per your fantasy. It is an occupied territory. So be afraid, be very afraid. I think of it like Nazi Germany. I wish I had my Liberty, but I don’t, and what the fuck amd I supposed to do about that.

    Some fucking Preacher (LOL) sent me a book that I hvbe no finished yet, about why the west won. It very well explains the tax tyranny of empires of old, and this is what this continenent has evolved into.

    It is such a shit show there is no even beginning to describe it. We live on a continenent and most of the people that happen to live here are not worthy of a country as the Founders envisaged.

    So unless you can being me massive civil disobedience on behalf of liberty, then get on with being fucking tax slaves.

    #56967
    Profile photo of Roadkill
    Roadkill
    Participant

    Is there another country in the world that respects personal liberty any better than the USA. No? If there was I would think of moving. What we have here is a shit show. As an individual with a family my options are limited. To be honest I’m not sure what to do. Moving is not an option; to where would we go? Claire Wolf wrote a book a while ago called,”Its Not Time to Shoot the Bastards… Yet”. It’s pretty damn frustrating. Max you’re correct, most tax is unconstitutional and it pisses me off when I hear fair tax. Nothing fair about them deciding how much they are going to steal from me. Basterds.

    RS/CTT Nov 16
    HEAT1 Aug18

    #56969
    Profile photo of WTL
    veritas556
    Participant

    Amen.

    #56970
    Profile photo of WTL
    veritas556
    Participant

    Funny thing, this all has little to do with 2A – much deeper than that.

    #56973
    Profile photo of Max Velocity
    Max
    Keymaster

    @roadkill – why did you immediately shift to moving. Unless you are suggesting my pirate autonomous republic in Rhodesia, which you are not, because none of you fuckers have the imagination for plans for world domination lol, then this still remains the best hope, in terms of the vestiges of the consitution.

    But make no mistake, there is a lot of Social freedom here, to be whatever type of degenarate you want, which ultimately helps the cause of the Leftists trying to destroy the place. But there is no true freedom. This place is ruled with an iron hand.

    Don’t believe me? Try doing your own thing and not paying taxes. Or disobeying a ‘lawful order.’

    This place is tyranny. Most of us just scate around it on a day to day basis. But people are stupid, always remind yourself of that.

    #56974
    Profile photo of Roadkill
    Roadkill
    Participant

    Not shifting to moving, there is no place to go. I just tried to make it plain. Although I just got done reading Three Sips of Gin, about Selous Scouts in Rhodesia, and the thought did cross my mind. This place is ruled by an iron hand. The things I do against the system I will not put in print here or any where. I would share around your campfire where hopefully government prying eyes would be discouraged. Again moving is not an option.

    RS/CTT Nov 16
    HEAT1 Aug18

    #56976
    Profile photo of Max Velocity
    Max
    Keymaster

    I blame the Germans. And I am only semi-half joking. I read that Germans are the largest ethnic group in the US. British is 5th. Founders were Brits. Now you aee where the propensity for tyranny, lederhosen, jack boots and state trooper uniforms comes from (for the latter see the former).

    :heart:

    #56988
    Profile photo of Brushpopper
    Brushpopper
    Participant

    I can’t agree more, we are slaves to the current system…..and it will take a large group of us “civil” disobedient slaves to buck that system…..property taxes suck, I’ve been an appraiser for our county appraisal district, worst job ever when you hate property taxes yet your the one out there brooming up for the treasury….didn’t last long at that job! There will be a price to be paid no doubt, there would be no coming out of that unscathed…….but if coming out the other side makes the price worth it then you’ve got something.

    ~ Little - South Texas

    #56989
    Profile photo of wheelsee
    wheelsee
    Participant

    yep, IIRC, an “official language” was discussed after the 1st Civil War (1774-1782) and the most listed was German??

    In the Republic (TX), even if you own your house, you do NOT own the land. It is merely rented from the county on an annual basis. Don’t believe me?? Fail to pay your property taxes and tell me who REALLY owns it (hint: armed sheriff deputies WILL show up to claim it and sell it for “taxes owed”).

    Even the Founding Fathers didn’t really believe it – explore the Whiskey Rebellion (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whiskey_Rebellion) under President George Washington who sent in armed troops to quell the very idea of what he had fought for less than 2 decades prior……taxes, they’s a fickle thing, which is why the phrase “the power to tax is the power to destroy” is alive and well……..

    Which is heavier - a soldier's pack or a slave's chains? Napoleon

    Strength, Honor. Maximus (Gladiator)

    If you tolerate evil, you yourself are evil.
    Col Hugo Martinez, Commander Search Bloc

    William, in The Republic - CRS/CTT 2017, HEAT 2/CQB/FonF 2018, DCH 2018

    #57002
    Profile photo of Roadkill
    Roadkill
    Participant

    Great, I’m Scotch, Irish, German, and Polish. There’s a mixed bag for you.

    RS/CTT Nov 16
    HEAT1 Aug18

    #57032
    Profile photo of Max Velocity
    Max
    Keymaster

    I’ve been planning a political post, probably separate thread, but have been bogged down with errands and I’m heading up tomorrow to the VTC to try and get in ahead of the snow.

    #57057
    Profile photo of RampantRaptor
    rampantraptor
    Participant

    In all fairness us Germans were actually pretty forward-thinking when we settled here – we didn’t get involved with slavery and we had mostly friendly interactions with the natives.

    My own ancestry is a mix of German, Irish, English, Scots, possibly something Spanish, and further back some French and Dutch mixed in the colonial period 300+ years ago. Most of my German ancestry came from the Palatine around 1700, my English ancestry includes families that settled in St. Mary’s City in 1600s Maryland, we’re pretty invested in this country.

    The original sins of our nation were slavery and the subjugation of the Native Americans, slavery wound up being the justification for the balance of power to shift from the states to the federal government via the Civil War and the source of much of our ongoing racial tensions, and the Native Americans were even more freedom-loving than many of the European ethnics we imported en masse, if we treated them as equals places like Comancheria and Lakotia should be constituent members of our federation. Maybe even places like the Philippines would be part of the Empire of Liberty that Jefferson promised if our leadership treated them like actual people. Hell, even today there’s this Eurocentrism on the left that says we need to be more like those civilized Europeans with their universal health care and gun control while the EU is actually falling apart at the seams.

    On the structural side, our current Constitution is very much an overreaction to the faults of the Articles of Confederation, though not ones I think were insurmountable.

    At this point in history trying to make something better than our Constitution would be a shit-show because the other half of the country would be trying to turn it into the Cuban Constitution so it’s still the best we’ve got. IMO it is still something to be admired, but if your image of liberty is only in the constraints of the Constitution you’re crippling yourself. It’s like the clowns who claim 2A gives them the right to bear arms; no, the state doesn’t give you shit but it damn sure likes to take things away.

    Regarding taxes if they exist at all they should be a flat percentage for everyone, I’m also personally interested in the Georgist position of a land value tax but that’s just my opinion. Honestly the longer I’m home the more I can relate to the (individualist) anarchist mindset, even if I’m still in favor of a night watchman state for purposes of pragmatism.

    Rhodesia had damn good fighting units but was fucked from the git because whites were only like 2% of the population, which is much worse than the percentage of us in anti-liberty states who are being told to move to (for now) freer states. It is worth noting that states like Maryland become Democrat strongholds through a mix of one or two big urban centers and a lot of gerrymandering. Cut out Baltimore and the counties connecting it to DC and the rest of Maryland’s a Republican state. The Rhodies and Afrikaners couldn’t claim that in the slightest.

    Outside of historical examples like Libertalia the only viable chance to set up a colony in modern history was maybe Minerva, but the folks who established that were sissies and didn’t want to risk their lives for their land. If I weren’t so solid on property rights I’d actually agree with the anarcho-communists on this one and ask why we aren’t allowed to find some strip of unused land to create our own new society.

    Outside of the US I don’t see anywhere with more liberty than what compromised liberty we have here. True, unadulterated liberty scares the shit out of most people, and most people are unwilling to accept the personal responsibility that it would take. Talk to folks from overseas and many think America is some violent Wild West where people starve to death on the streets through lack of government action.

    Our country was supposed to be an example of the promise of liberty and instead we’ve become a laughingstock for the rest of the world to argue for servitude to the state. Our American Empire (which shouldn’t be an empire) is at the point of decadence before decline, obsessed over irrelevant minutae that we lose sight of what we were supposed to be and become ignorant of the threats to our continued existence.

    I could go on about how our urbanized societies fuel centralization of power or how our neverending war is bringing the war home and creating an unhealthy society but that’s another essay in itself.

    If the economy is good and life is easy no one is willing to push back. Unless there’s another economic downturn I wouldn’t get my hopes up for any type of mass civil disobedience. Even the Tea Party was the result of a bad economy before it got astroturfed. You only have resistance when revolution costs less than a loaf of bread.

    I feel the best we can do in our current condition is to work in our own communities to discretely create the parallel institutions and mutual aid necessary to subvert the authority of the state in matters where it has no business of belonging, in the markets, health care, self-defense, etc. While it’s very possible the conditions for drastic, revolutionary change could arise, such conditions are also ripe for the cruelest forms of tyranny (where I was at the promise of the Arab Spring brought us Daesh) it’s best to work inside of what we have now.

    #RaqqaSummer2017
    - - -
    Jîn, Jiyan, Azadî

    #57059
    Profile photo of Max Velocity
    Max
    Keymaster

    Raptor: amidst yoir pontificating, one thing you have no idea about is Rhodesia. It wasn’t the number of whites that mattered, but that they had more blacks fighting for them, against communism. It was the International community who betrayed them, in particular Britain. With support, Rhodesia could have easily endured, in particular if we had got into the fight on a similar rationale to Vietnam i.e. domino effect.

    I will get around to my political post, but one thing annoys me more than most, and that is the (and your) attempt to constantly define your political views with a name. Utterly fucking pointless. Part of the problem. Anal gazing bullshit. Liberty needs clear and simple principles, not internecine bullshit, which is all it has now.

    #57076
    Profile photo of RampantRaptor
    rampantraptor
    Participant

    I will get around to my political post, but one thing annoys me more than most, and that is the (and your) attempt to constantly define your political views with a name. Utterly fucking pointless. Part of the problem. Anal gazing bullshit. Liberty needs clear and simple principles, not internecine bullshit, which is all it has now.

    Honestly I’ve been trying to flesh out my own political views between my dissatisfaction between mainstream Democrats, Republicans, conservatives, progressives, libertarians, whatever.

    So we need a clear platform and ideology? Perhaps a bullet list would suffice?

    -Respect for personal and private property rights.
    -Equality of all before the law
    -Decentralization of political power to the state and local level
    -Self-defense is the right of the individual and community, not the responsibility of the state.
    -Economic liberty in the form of radically freed markets

    Beyond that…
    -The US Constitution as our template?
    -Ranked-choice voting to break the two-party system?
    -An end to victimless crimes?
    -Police as peace officers, not law enforcement?
    -A simple flat tax?
    -The ability to form autonomous communities away from the federal and state governments a la the Amish?
    -An end to the welfare monopoly, mutual aid is best left to the private sector?
    -Promotion of an informal economy as a means of tax protest?

    I know you’re not particularly fond of my views but I am quite interested in seeing your next political post.

    #RaqqaSummer2017
    - - -
    Jîn, Jiyan, Azadî

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