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Mental Fitness Grossman article

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This topic contains 9 replies, has 8 voices, and was last updated by Profile photo of Wild Bill wildbill 2 years ago.

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  • #40476
    Profile photo of Andrew
    Andrew
    Participant

    Pretty good condensed version of what he writes in “On Killing.”

    http://taskandpurpose.com/this-is-your-brain-on-war/

    #40498
    Profile photo of Brian from Georgia
    Brian from Georgia
    Participant

    That was a pretty good read.

    3-4 Aug 2013 CRCD, 2-6 Aug 2014 CRCD/Patrol, 30 Sep 2016 Run n Gun, 1-2 Oct 2016 FoF, 3-4 March 2018 DCH alumni
    Team Coyote

    #40500
    Profile photo of zeerf
    zeerf
    Participant

    Great read, thanks for posting Andrew. :good:

    #40511
    Profile photo of First Sergeant
    First Sergeant
    Moderator

    Be careful with Grossman. While he may have done some good things, he has never heard a shot fired in anger and he has no clue except what someone tells him in an interview.

    He is also the jackass that started the whole sheepdog thing that cops fell in love with because it gave them an excuse to push the sheep around.

    I am not a fan.

    FILO
    Signal out, can you identify.
    Je ne regrette rien...
    Klagt Nicht, Kämpft

    #40515
    Profile photo of cynikal
    cynikal
    Participant

    i actually had a psych class in college (ASU) with him … I always though he was 35% NUTS. He does make great points though.

    #40517
    Profile photo of Andrew
    Andrew
    Participant

    Be careful with Grossman. While he may have done some good things, he has never heard a shot fired in anger and he has no clue except what someone tells him in an interview.

    I’m sure that is true, but do you know of anyone else who may have done similar research and who has actually experienced combat?

    #40520
    Profile photo of JohnnyMac
    JohnnyMac
    Participant

    I own and have read in it’s entirety “On Killing”. I can’t comment on it’s accuracy or not, but I thought it was way too much like a text book. It was tough for me to get through, being so academic- and people often describe me as academic!

    #40591
    Profile photo of First Sergeant
    First Sergeant
    Moderator

    I’m sure that is true, but do you know of anyone else who may have done similar research and who has actually experienced combat?

    Not off the top of my head. One of the main problems with him is that he based some of his work off of S.L.A. Marshall and his stuff has been debunked.

    FILO
    Signal out, can you identify.
    Je ne regrette rien...
    Klagt Nicht, Kämpft

    #40707
    Profile photo of Tom
    xsquidgator
    Participant

    Despite the legitimate criticisms of Grossman and some of his academic work (ie based on the notion of some inherent human aversion to killing), I would submit some of Grossman’s work is good and useful.

    I got a copy of his “Bulletproof Mind” DVD series a number of years ago as some promotion the USCCA (that’s a whole ‘nother thing about screwing up my face in distaste but they’re probably doing good things) did. The 5 DVD set showed up in my mail one day after I renewed USCCA or something. I thought “oh hell, what am I going to do with this, no way I’m wasting 5 hours watching this crap”.
    I’m happy to say I was dead wrong about it. I started watching it, and quickly changed my attitude. The Bulletproof Mind seminar on DVD is a recording of the seminar Grossman gave to an audience along the way. It includes stuff from his various books but has other things worked into it, all aimed at the private armed citizen.

    The main lessons or points in the seminar involve denial of the dangers, understanding some of the dangers of violence particularly school violence against your kids and terrorists/mass shooters, and then a bunch of stuff on psychological preparation for a deadly force encounter. If you’re on this forum, there’s a good chance you know some or all of this already, but I think Grossman’s presentation is really compelling, enough so that on my own I show it to prospective CCW (Florida CCW permit) students and will watch it with them and discuss it. If nothing else, I think the person who is uneasy about the world and what’s going on and decides to get a handgun and a CCW permit needs to see this. There’s value in confirming that yes, there is nothing wrong with your though process and in fact, you’re likely the only person you know who actually is thinking correctly and who isn’t in denial of what might happen to you. I think people need to hear that early on. They also need to continue to shed denial by not just taking whatever BS 4 hour CCW class meets the minimum state requirements, but actually get trained to know what the hell they’re doing. And that takes time, effort, and $ which they might not have expected to have to commit when they started. They need to hear this message. The presentation also includes Grossman making the strong point of, don’t just learn this stuff and get trained, carry that damn gun everywhere and have it with you if the bad man ever comes. Of course Grossman isn’t the only one saying this, but “on stage” he makes a very compelling argument for it that hits people emotionally.

    Yes, he also hits the “sheepdog thing” and I, too, cringe when I hear that term misused especially by the derp crowd (ie – mall ninjas who probably bought a CCW “badge” and think of themselves as junior policemen). I would respectfully submit that the misuse of the term isn’t Grossman’s fault, hopefully. I do think there’s value in the new prospective CCWer being exposed to the sheepdog idea, at least in the context of each parent/husband/wife/grandparent SHOULD think of himself/herself as a sheepdog for one’s family. Decades ago I think this was just the way it was, our societal norms now go against this to the point where many progressives will deride you as a “vigilante” for thinking this way. Yet again, I think particularly the new gun-owner and prospective CCWer needs to hear this in the right context, they should hear “no, you’re right and correct for thinking this way”. Even though it looks kind of hokey on the surface, I think the Bulletproof Mind and some of Grossman’s stuff like On Combat is pretty profound, warts and all.

    Fwiw, I’m a little skeptical of the claim about fundamental aversion to killing another human, which shows up a lot in the Grossman books. I suspect it’s somewhat true but isn’t true for all circumstances or people. Even without buying Grossman’s line wholesale though, I hope or wonder if some people see some value in what he’s putting out.?

    CTT 10-2014, CTT 1504, RnG/CQB/FoF October 2016, 2017 Georgia CTT/DA, DCH 2018.

    #40710
    Profile photo of Wild Bill
    wildbill
    Participant

    He is also the jackass that started the whole sheepdog thing that cops fell in love with because it gave them an excuse to push the sheep around.

    I have never thought of it like that but I can see how that could play out with some people who are inclined to assert their real or imagined authority.

    Maybe it is just the breed and their training but the ones I see down the road from me spend countless hours standing guard not bothering the sheep. That is my idea of the perfect sheepdog (either dog or human) unassuming almost invisible but ready to act at the first sign of a threat.

    Western North Carolina ― LRMC-1 Sept. 2017, CQBC May 2017, DCH March 2017, RS & CTT October. 2016, CTT 1511, LN 1

    “We don't rise to the level of our expectations, we fall to the level of our training.” ― Archilochos

    “I do believe that, where there is only a choice between cowardice and violence, I would advise violence..." - Gandhi

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