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Optimizing the Production 16" Carbine for Combat

Home Forums The Armory – Gear and Equipment Weapons Optimizing the Production 16" Carbine for Combat

This topic contains 23 replies, has 14 voices, and was last updated by Profile photo of JohnnyMac JohnnyMac 1 year, 2 months ago.

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  • #37854
    Profile photo of Max Velocity
    Max
    Keymaster

    I recently wrote a post called ‘Who Haz the Kewlest Gunz?‘ and this is sort of a follow up from that.  This is not a ‘build your rifle from the ground up’ post. What this is about, is what you can do with that standard 16″ carbine, with front sight post (FSP) in order to mod it for combat. We have already covered that these basic rifles, if made by reputable companies, will run well and not let you down. So what can we do with them to optimize them?

    My inspiration for this was pulling out a backup loaner rifle. Palmetto State Armory from about 3 years ago. I know PSA has been flagged recently here on the forum, but I know these ones that I have  run flawlessly. It came out of the safe with a 16″ barrel, standard birdcage, Eotech mounted, some Magpul furniture, including the MOE handguard. This rifle is in fact very similar to my Colt LE6920, and since doing this, I was so inspired that I am modding my Colt in the same way.

    None of the mods that I have done involved armorer tools or armorer skills. This is all about the ergonomics and function of the rifle. Optimizing it not for cool, but for combat.

    dscf0343

     

    dscf0344

    What has been done:

    • Spray job coyote brown: ensure you remove/tape up any optics before doing this!
    • Eotech was already on there, as was the rear flip sight. The Eotech gives a lower 1/3 cowitness with the irons, and works well, FSP not really getting in the way.
    • Magpul pistol grip, with oil bottle inside. Don’t lose the safety lever spring when you change out pistol grips (don’t ask me how I know).
    • Keep the standard birdcage, please. No ‘loudeners / monster-flash-position-giveaways!’
    • The base of this build is the Monstrum Tactical rail which is designed for use with the FSP and extends in front of it. This is exactly what I wanted and allows a lot of good things to happen. Better grip on the rifle and more forward real estate.
    • I removed the front sling swivel, which although the Monstrum rail accommodates it, allowed me to put the Magpul AFG where it is, bridging the gap below the FSP, which puts my support hand further forward and gives me a better grip on the rifle.
    • Rail protectors, because rails get hot! Handy burny.
    • Inforce light with white / white strobe / IR. This now sits in an ideal position where my thumb can operate it while holding the AFG. The rail having more space forward of the FSP allowed this.
    • My OTAL IR laser is not fitted. On this rifle I put it on the front right opposite the Inforce light. This keeps it out of the way of the Eotech. On my Colt with ACOG, I usually put it on top of the rail in front of the ACOG, because the ACOG has greater height over bore and it does not interfere. I can also do this with the EOTECH.
    • Put a quick detach front sling swivel on the near side of the rail. Optimum for me.
    • This rifle does not have a BAD lever. My Colt does.

    And that is pretty much it. All simple stuff. But it works very well ergonomically for me, particularly with the gear forward of the FSP and a more forward grip with my support hand. Some would say this adds weight. It is not a race for the lightest rifle, but for the most ergonomic and optimized rifle for combat. I prefer to deal with a little more weight with the rail, which I can easily handle, and a better ergonomic rifle.

    Now I know you can go out and build what you want, SBR, low profile gas block, suppressor and all that. Just remember that this post is about optimizing the standard produc

    #37855
    Profile photo of Max Velocity
    Max
    Keymaster

    Shit, where did that T-Tex come from?

    #37856
    Profile photo of zeerf
    zeerf
    Participant

    lol, was going to ask about that T-rex. Good info thanks for posting.

    #37858
    Profile photo of DiznNC
    DiznNC
    Participant

    Bang a gong!

    CTT 1505, NODF 1505, CP 1503, LN 1, RC II, Rifleman

    #37859
    Profile photo of SeanT
    SeanT
    Moderator

    upper Cretaceous Period

    Nice Diz…. :yahoo:

    #37862
    Profile photo of Thomas
    Thomas
    Participant

    Max, your configuration is much like what I prefer with a railed foregrip.

    My rail of choice for my 6920 is the Daniel Defence Omega Seven. I use a Surefire light on the left side with pressure switch on the right so that I grip it with my fingers. I likely don’t grip as far forward as you and never got comfortable with a foregrip.

    I generally like to keep stuff off the gun and add items as necessary which is what drove me to the Magpul MOE furniture.

    #37864
    Profile photo of
    Anonymous

    Question: Why is there so little love for the Dissipator configuration….with the mid gas system….???

    http://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-16-midlength-5-56-nato-1-7-moe-dissipator-blk-with-bcg-and-charging-handle.html

    #37868
    Profile photo of Max Velocity
    Max
    Keymaster

    @Albert: no idea, but this was about carbine length FSP 16″ production rifles, like many of us have, or are easily available.

    #37869
    Profile photo of Brian from Georgia
    Brian from Georgia
    Participant

    Question: Why is there so little love for the Dissipator configuration….with the mid gas system….???

    The Dissipator gives you the best of both worlds. You get the 4″ longer rifle length sight radius -great for aging eyes – with the handling of a 16″ barrel.

    I’d like to use one on my next rifle.

    3-4 Aug 2013 CRCD, 2-6 Aug 2014 CRCD/Patrol, 30 Sep 2016 Run n Gun, 1-2 Oct 2016 FoF, 3-4 March 2018 DCH alumni
    Team Coyote

    #37874
    Profile photo of
    Anonymous

    The Dissipator gives you the best of both worlds. You get the 4″ longer rifle length sight radius -great for aging eyes – with the handling of a 16″ barrel.[/quote

    Everything about it seems better to me. 16″ barrel, FSP, and a Mid length gas system that is superior to carbine gas system, and the equipment like lights are not half way down the barrel, they are at the end of the barrel, which reduces barrel shadowing. I am building some AR-10 Dissipators, with both 16″ and 18″ barrels. I just never understood why the dissipator configuration is not widely embraced.
    :yahoo:

    #37875
    Profile photo of Max Velocity
    Max
    Keymaster

    Please keep this on topic. If you want a dissipator thread, please start one.

    #37879
    Profile photo of
    Anonymous

    GG&G offers some good tools. I find this useful, as I like having several options for forward QR sling attachment. This is just one of the tools they offer for the FSP.

    https://www.gggaz.com/quick-detach-slic-thing-qd-sling-and-light-combo-mount.html

    #37921
    Profile photo of Pinky
    Pinky
    Participant

    What brand paint did you use? That is a nice dark coyote brown

    "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms."
    -- Thomas Jefferson

    #37922
    Profile photo of Max Velocity
    Max
    Keymaster

    It is Rothco Coyote Brown. It is actually the Coyote Brown real deal: “Colors Are Exact Matches To 595 Federal Specifications.” Got it on amazon. Use it on my target shields.

    #37943
    Profile photo of Jamison
    Jamison
    Participant

    For me, to optimize a standard carbine like yours, I would do almost the exact same. The only difference I would make, would be a surefire/sreamlight with a remote switch, mount that on the left side. With the EOtech set up on the rizer for lower third co-witness I would feel fine putting the OTAL right in front of it, maybe running a dual remote switch for the light and laser. So that would dump us up to surefire scout category. That being said, I like a VFG closer to the magwel and a sling mount on the left side as far forward as you can.

    Admit nothing. Deny everything. Make counter-accusations.

    Nulla fatere. Nega omnia. Accusatis calumniatorem. Demanda probationem.

    #38396
    Profile photo of The Hobbit
    The Hobbit
    Participant

    Max
    Can you get some pictures of the quad rail. How it installs over the FSP. Is it a clamshell construction where you drop the top piece down and then secure it to the bottom piece with screws? I have been looking for a rail system similar to this so I dont have to mess with removing the barrel but still can get some railestate forward of the receiver.’

    Thanks

    #38398
    Profile photo of Joe (G.W.N.S.)
    Joe (G.W.N.S.)
    Moderator

    How it installs over the FSP.

    YouTube has several reviews and install videos.

    #38400
    Profile photo of Max Velocity
    Max
    Keymaster

    Yeah.

    It comes apart top and bottom, bottom is 2 parts, one forward one aft of the FSP. Just bolts in with the supplied hex thingy. Easy as pie.

    #38402
    Profile photo of The Hobbit
    The Hobbit
    Participant

    Yeah.

    It comes apart top and bottom, bottom is 2 parts, one forward one aft of the FSP. Just bolts in with the supplied hex thingy. Easy as pie.

    Okay thats what I thought looking at pictures on their site. Just wanted to check with someone that has installed one. Guess ill have to grab one when they come back in stock.

    #38406
    Profile photo of Max Velocity
    Max
    Keymaster

    If they are out of stock, I guess Monstrum owes me a Christmas bonus B-)

    Got my yearly gift box from the Koolwink already…. :good:

    #38407
    Profile photo of RonW
    farmer
    Participant

    @ Max, glad I could help out with your yearly gift box. Will do it again next year also. :yes:

    farmer

    RonW

    #43833
    Profile photo of The Hobbit
    The Hobbit
    Participant

    Max or anyone else here that ended up with this rail. With some class experience what are your thoughts on it? Still worth the purchase?

    #53420
    Profile photo of Jim D.
    Jim D.
    Participant

    I see a lot of discussions regarding gas system vs barrel length with regards to carbines, some folks seem to feel that with a carbine length gas system the barrel should be closer to the M4 14.5′ length (shortened with a pinned flash hider, etc.). Do people here think that the extra length of “civilian” carbines makes that much of a difference in reliability, longevity, etc. Thanks

    #53441
    Profile photo of JohnnyMac
    JohnnyMac
    Participant

    The other variable is gas port size. This is just as important as gas length and all three variables (barrel length, gas length, gas port size) needs to be within an “operating range”. Honestly, I wouldn’t worry to much about it as long as the upper is coming from a manufacturer of high quality/known quality. I’m not saying lower quality rifles can’t serve you fine, it’s just a roll of the dice.

    Just from a use perspective, I love using M4 length barrels. I think it’s a perfect compromise between maneuverability and range, for a general purpose carbine.

    Pin the flash hider and you don’t have to deal with SBR rules (annual Form 5320, what a pain!).

    I have two rifles in this barrel length with midlength gas systems, both with pinned A2’s and one of them has been my primary training weapon for the past year, seeing a pretty high round count (not quite sure, but anywhere from 5k-8k) and heavy abuse at the VTC. Only two malfunctions have happened: one was the barrel backing up with UTM (not really the rifle’s fault) and the second is a dirty chamber last month causing it to lock up (my fault, remedied with two rigorous cleanings). I’ll continue to rock on with it in the coming year.

    FirstSergeant has been known to say 14″ is the shortest barrel to go with for general purpose carbines.

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