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Replacing UTM with Airsoft / Milsim?

Home Forums The Armory – Gear and Equipment Weapons Replacing UTM with Airsoft / Milsim?

This topic contains 73 replies, has 20 voices, and was last updated by Profile photo of ST4T3S ST4T3S 2 months, 1 week ago.

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    Profile photo of Abacus

    I played a lot in college. No auto was the rule inside structures.

    Food for thought on the no auto rule. Don’t mechanically disable full auto on an electric airsoft gun. It may not be an issue anymore, but some gearboxes used to lock up on occasion when run in semi only. You had to run the gun in auto for a few rounds to get it working right. It had something to do with the cut off lever they used to mechanically make the gun only shoot once per switch (trigger) activation. It never happened to me and I ran semi almost exclusively. A guy I played with had an SVD replica that was limited to semi only from the factory that would lock up without warning. I watched him partially dissable the thing and fiddle with a long handles screwdriver in order to activate full auto and clear the jam.

    A portion of the typos in the above message might be my phone, the rest are just me.

    I have been wrong before...

    Profile photo of Hessian

    The information provided in the thread has me re-thinking my previous anti-airsoft stance. Now if I could clone my rifle (rail and accessories) with one of these high quality gas guns that could add some significant value.

    Profile photo of Max Velocity

    I have my PTS AR-15 in and I have been testing it. Been zeroing at 25 and I have been told the hop-up needs breaking in and then can be adjusted for more backspin on the BBs.

    This is a quality training simulator. You can mod it up just like your own rifle.

    I notice that you can see the white BBs fly. Although that may be mitigated by a darker BB, itnis actually very useful. Think of it as the BB equivalent of seeing strike, whereas with UTM you do no see them, and this leads to guys having no idea of fall of shot or holdover. It will make for better hits as rounds can be walked on.

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    Profile photo of Max Velocity

    Clarity: PTS is made under license by KWA. They have the same internals as the LM4 versions. I was interested in the RIS LM4 but when I ordered the sample they were out of stock.

    If this goes as I want, I could be set up as a dealer for KWA, so as I research it, if you want one, delay a bit and you may be able to order from MVT.

    Profile photo of Mike Q
    Mike Q

    I brought my company and some clients to a Corporate FoF at MVT a few weeks ago. At then end of the 2 day class 4 rifles came home with jammed barrels which could not be cleared onsite. 1 of Max’s loaners – which he later cleared. 3 were from my co-workers. 1 rifle was cleared by its owner. I cleared another one last week. However the last one is toast.

    I spent over 5 hours trying to clear the barrel. I was ultimately able to remove about 10 stuck rounds. The rounds were stacked up all the way from the front end of the gas block to the chamber. During the clearing of the rounds I could get out I found 3 BB’s in between the rounds. These BB’s are what actually hits the back of the round propelling it down the barrel. Therefore AT LEAST 3 rounds exploded and sent the round along with the BB’s down the barrel.

    I have since jammed a cleaning rod from the end of the barrel to the gas block and broke a 3″ drill bit off from the chamber towards the gas block. (I bought a 12″ long 1/8″ drill bit to hand drill into the stoppages and pull the plastic rounds out. I believe I snapped the bit because there was another BB in the barrel) As far as I can tell there are at least 10 more rounds stuck in the barrel.

    I finally tried to simply take the barrel off the upper to replace it. Once I removed the gas block I noticed the gas port was blocked. The UTM plastic and wax completely JAMMED the gas port!!!! I had to drill out the wax to clear the damn thing. I looked in the gas tube and saw wax inside the tube as well. Which also means there is wax build up in the gas block as well. I now need to get the other rifles from my coworkers so I can verify their gas ports aren’t also blocked.

    I tried soaking the barrel in boiling water for 30 minutes and couldn’t lodge anything free. I then used a heat gun to warm up the blocked area and that didn’t work. (this is the method I used on the first rifle to clear it and that worked fine.)

    I’ve never seen this before. Most of you know me and know I’ve been to almost every single Force on Force event. I’ve probably shot more UTM rounds out of my rifles than most folks. So you know I’m not talking from ignorance.

    At this point the barrel is useless junk. I now have to buy a new barrel and put it on. I expect UTM to pay for all of this. Unless UTM changes back to what used to work just fine, I’m not going to put any UTM rounds in any of my rifles…

    There never seems to be enough time to do it right, but there is always enough time to do it twice.

    CRM Sept. 2014, CTT 1505, CTT July 2015, RC-Rifleman 1502, CP Nov. 2015, FoF March 2016, CCW May 2016, FoF Oct. 2016, FoF Nov. 2016, CLC April 2017, FoF Nov. 2017, Alumni weekend Aug. 2018, CQB Dec. 2018

    Profile photo of Max Velocity

    I’m gonna be shipping this student’s upper to UTM, and pushing for them to compensate him.

    Profile photo of Robert


    Thinking a bad batch or maybe someone new shipped you the wrong item? Seems like they went to shit pretty damn quick! That sucks!

    Mike has been at every FOF event, he’s blasted me a ton of times and we’ve blasted others together a ton of times. Mike also doesn’t have some shit frankenM4 nonsense. He buys quality gear and definitely seems to take care of it- hence operator error isn’t obviously an issue here.

    UTM- got another three letters for you- WTF??
    RMP, TC3, NODF, CRCD 6/14, CP 9/14. NODF, Land Nav, 6/15. Rifleman Challenge 9/15- Vanguard. FOFtactics 3/16, 10/16, 11/16, 6/17,11/17 CTT, 6/15, 11/16, , LRMC-1 9/17 GA Mobile CTT and DA 10/16, GA mobile DCH 3/18, HEAT1 3/18 Alum weekend 8/18, Opfor CLC 10/18, DA 11/18 CQBC 12/18

    Profile photo of First Sergeant
    First Sergeant

    I am going to add to what Mike has said above.

    I have been at every FoF from the beginning. The issues that we had during this class have never happened before. Occasionally we would have rounds stuck in the barrel but those were easily cleared.

    Before this class I can count the number of blown cases on one hand with fingers left over. I still remember the first one because it shocked me when it happened, it was Robert’s son that it happened to. During this class it happened so much that I can’t remember the number of blown cases.

    Whatever UTM did, they fucked this one up.

    Signal out, can you identify.
    Je ne regrette rien...
    Klagt Nicht, Kämpft

    Profile photo of Mark (CTT 1501, NODF)

    What will that do? It will pay dividends for you if you plan to train seriously and come to more than one FoF class. It will also give you a FoF training rifle that replicates your AR. This can be used for your own individual and group training, unlike restricted and expensive UTM.

    Repeating this for emphasis:

    This can be used for your own individual and group training, unlike restricted and expensive UTM.

    Other things being equal, I think THIS would be a deciding factor, and one which many of your customers would recognize as a way to better reinforce off-site what they learn in periodic classes at MVT. Those with their own groups who want to train can get many more repetitions–in relatively mundane settings that look like a kid’s game–to “set” the lessons learned at MVT.

    I see it as more steps up the ladder from “Unconscious Incompetence” toward “Unconscious Competence”–another tool in the toolbox along with square range practice, dry fire practice, malfunction clearance drills, PT, etc.

    That’s without getting into the issues you’re now seeing with UTM ammunition, which now appears to be the kiss of death.


    Profile photo of Darkrivers

    I just picked up a used KWA HK USP green gas gun for some upcoming trainings here in Austin. I’m pretty impressed so far, feels and operates very similar to my carry gun. I will update as I get some time behind it.

    If you're gonna fight, fight like you're the 3rd monkey on the ramp to Noah's Ark... And Brother, it's starting to rain! James from Texas

    Profile photo of Keeper aka "Sun Shine"

    You can apply to me for an ‘in-scenario’ tax stamp to use full auto, and it will cost you $200… :yahoo:

    I bet you would take the tax stamp money

    Alumni living in N.E Fla. for now. Going to retire in Iowa on the farm some day soon.

    Profile photo of Darkrivers

    I participated in a vehicle tactics course this weekend that used airsim pistols for the force on force sections. The kwa H&K USP pistol I purchased worked well and exceeded my expectations. This is going to open a lot of avenues for me training! I am glad that Max convinced me to let go of my preconceptions about these guns. I was wrong and will definitely start researching GBB rifles.

    If you're gonna fight, fight like you're the 3rd monkey on the ramp to Noah's Ark... And Brother, it's starting to rain! James from Texas

    Profile photo of RampantRaptor

    Ohhey, look at this.

    US Coast Guard Pick SIG P229 Airsoft Pistol for Training

    - - -
    Jîn, Jiyan, Azadî

    Profile photo of ST4T3S

    Damn Raptor, beat me to it. I literally came to this thread to drop that link, LOL

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