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Retreat Defense as a Single family Unit

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  • #53511
    Profile photo of Max Velocity
    Max
    Keymaster

    In the recent ‘Perimeter Security: Use of an Obstacle Plan’ article there was some discussion in the thread (on the MVT Forum) about the numbers required to secure / defend a retreat location. Like many tactical questions, the answer is “it depends” but we do cover this in detail on classes such as the HEAT 2 (formerly Combat Patrol) class. There, we talk about how you could create a rotation with trained fighters, and the numbers that you would need to make that possible. Each small team element rotating through roles such as patrol, quick reaction force (QRF), security (sentry or observation post) and rest. This is of course mainly talking about the trained ‘shooters’ that hopefully you have available, not the totality of people at that location. Thus, this is a solution that derives from military experience and training. As such, D Close writes in the forum thread:

    The most valuable resource in this topic are trained shooters, working as a team. This should put to bed the notion of the porch-sniper-homesteader being in any way a viable option.
    Max mentions the need to identify key terrain. Anyone who has taken the Force on Force class or similar, knows how this determines outcome to a large extent. If you’ve lost the high ground, you’ve in all likelihood lost the battle.
    I liked the point about keeping obstacles under observation. That seems to be a manpower intensive exercise that most are not prepared for. My question is, how many? I realize without specifics this is impossible to answer, so I would post assumptions. A five acre lot, roughly square, with a secondary paved road on one side and a mix of fields and wooded on all others. Say one other side of the property allows approach by vehicle through a field while two other sides allow concealment. A single family house sits back from the road but well within small arms range. How many shooters, would be needed to secure such an area? Given: a threat of roving gangs and thieves, not military or rogue LE and a weapon threat of semi-auto rifles. What kind of watch/patrol schedule is desired? How big a QRF would be recommended? What would those patrols look like?

    The question that he asked can, and have been, answered. We can tell you all day what a security rotation would look like at any given location, how you would rotate groups through the various duties, the sort of numbers that you would need, and all that.

    But what if you do not have that?

    It is evident that the greatest challenge facing those who wish to prepare for potential disasters is the lack of numbers of suitable people to help them secure a defended location. Throughout the ‘prepper-sphere’ the subject of ‘group’ is constant. There are many ways to approach this and there will be a huge variety of circumstances, in terms of location, personalities, size of retreat, terrain and such factors. An article such as this is generalist, and thus will not focus on a specific location or circumstance.

    Why do people not have suitable teams, in terms of both numbers and suitably trained people?

    • It is very hard to connect with suitable people who have training, or who are willing to get suitable training, in order to make them effective shooters as part of a team.

    • There are many people out there who have ‘groups’ but the actual number of serious / trained people in those groups is very small.

    • People generally refuse to do any meaningful physical conditioning or tactical training. They live behind denial and defense mechanisms. In general, most people are weak, and lack intestinal fortitude or any sort of decent character. It is hard to find quality out there.

    • Between concerns about ‘OPSEC’ on the one hand, and the difficulty of finding quality on the other, it is hard to build trust. Given that the frequent ‘prepper’ solution is to select a retreat on one person’s property, and have some sort of rule where people will keep gear there, and supplies, and meet there in a crisis, that takes a serious amount of trust before it can be undertaken. As a property owner with a family at a location, you are genuinely justified on having concerns before allowing people in to such a group.

    • The above is compounded by character weakness of many who are out there in the ‘preppers-sphere’ who select themselves out through excess paranoia, extreme politics or general nut-jobbery. It is hard to find the rational solid people in amongst the chaff. This makes the classic prepper attempts to form group through meeting people via prepper-networks a little bit of a challenge.

    • If you speak to anyone who is running some sort of ‘group’ it may include a lot of people once you take into account all the family members, but often there is very little tactical quality within that group. You also have to remember that people have their own agendas and in a purely voluntary environment there is no way to enforce training now, or behavior during the crisis. Who knows what people actually intend to do once the hammer drops? Thus, what is the balance of assets vs. liabilities in such groups?

    I realize that the above factors appear to argue against trying to form any sort of group. That is not the case, although I know some of the more paranoid readers are probably having conniptions right now! On the contrary, I would argue for ensuring that you only associate with quality i.e. quality of character. Be discerning. It would be better to be with a small trusted group of competent people, rather than a large group of liabilities, lacking in qualities of character. Who knows how they will behave under stress and pressure? Particularly when they refused to do any sort of physical / tactical readiness training now, so they will be utterly unprepared and unreliable in a crisis.

    This is another reason why I am promoting TacGun. For example, rather than making covenants with people to stack mountain house in one of our basements, I would rather associate via training. There may even be no initial talk of preparation; given the nut-jobbery and derp out there in the ‘prepper/militia/patriot-sphere’ that may actually be a good thing, if it allows you to associate primarily with rational types who have the wherewithal and intestinal fortitude to take TacGun (tactical training and competition) seriously. This allows you to build relationships and vet others in a training environment, which will also give you indications as to their character. It may not be ideal if the hammer drops suddenly, but it may provide you with a network of trusted people who you know are actually competent. Better than being locked into a retreat with a bunch of self-absorbed fat-asses who never trained. Thus, TacGun can be viewed as networking, with constant and ongoing assessment and selection of those you start to associate with while training.

    Having established that it is better to be with a smaller group of trusted trained people, than with a larger conglomeration of liabilities and potentially problematic / toxic personalities, we now face a problem: we do not have enough people to run a security rotation. Thus, our security is compromised. This may happen either because you do not have a larger group, or because a situation happens suddenly and others in your agreed group are not able make it to the retreat location. So let us look at the situation that many of you will actually face, and that is being home with only your family unit with you. For the purposes of this, let us use as an example what may well be a typical prepared family. We have a husband of middling fitness and partial tactical training. A tactically untrained wife. Two children of dependent ages who cannot perform any tactical duties. The kids are thus the ‘protected personnel’ and will absorb assets to protect them – they are a tactical liability, not an asset. As is probably the wife, whose primary function may well be close protection of the kids.

    As part of surviving whatever disaster you face, there will be a number of ongoing duties or chores that will need to be done day to day. This will be basic survival stuff in order to keep the family sheltered, fed and watered. If you are on a farm, you will have farm chores. Things will be much harder once gasoline runs out. There is no luxury within this for anyone to be specifically on security (‘watch’) duties. This is a tactical nightmare, because one of the basic principles is security. This whole article now goes against anything I would like to tell you, anything tactically correct. It can only focus on what is practical and possible, and give you some thoughts. As such, it is not an easy article to write. If you can, get trained and trusted team, as a matter of priority. Everyone’s situation and location will be different, and some will be in more tenable positions that others. If you are in a more population dense area, there may be opportunities for security alliances, such as being in the suburbs, but that brings it own nightmare of working with unvetted people. Even the simple threat of fratricide (blue on blue) is off the charts in such circumstances.

    So what are some thoughts?

    1) We do not know the duration of the disaster, from 48 hours like a hurricane or winter storm, to full grid down with no recovery. You want to be able to keep a low profile. A low profile may well be your greatest security measure under these circumstances because if hostile attention is drawn, you will likely be unable to defend against it, and may have to bug out of your home / supply location.

    2) Without making this article all about retreat preparation, you should consider a quantity of ‘ready’ supplies for perhaps a three month duration. You may well have long term food plans, live on a farm, more along the lines of a ‘homesteader mentality’ but the need to do the farm work in the short term may well be a liability. Granted, you have to keep animals alive and you will have basic chores. But the more convenient your short term solution is, perhaps along the freeze dried food line, the more of a low profile you will be able to make. Thus, consider the basics of food, water, shelter (warmth), trash, bodily waste disposal et. You may well be simply camped in your house taking out latrine buckets to a hole and dumping every day. Short term measures, along the lines of being convenient and low profile

    3) Personal readiness: You cannot go too far from the house as the husband if that leaves the wife and kids vulnerable. You may well do short security patrols if you are able, looking for sign in the woods of any hostile presence. Slow moving cautious patrolling with use of short term observation points would be more the name of the game here. You need to have your weapons / tactical gear on you or available all the time. This is the whole point of the MVT Lite Fight Gear Concept. You can layer your gear and at least be wearing a light battle belt for farm chores and around the place. Stage your rifle around where you are working or resting. Have a way for the wife to call you back to the house if something happens when you are in the woods. You will have to be mindful about where you are putting stuff such as your rifle, and pay more attention than you usually would when around your property with your rifle locked in the safe.

    4) I assume you have all been in the house when someone has driven up for a delivery and had no idea they were there? You may not have the ability to have someone on watch, or in a specific watch position, all the time, so how do you solve this? You could take measures that you will likely not do now, due to heating / air conditioning, such as having windows open so you can hear outside better. You could take turns with chores and have a central watch location where one of you will hang out while the other is outside. Are you going to take turns sleeping? Can the driveway be viewed while food is being prepared in the kitchen? You are going to be double-hatting roles and tasks. What you really don’t want to happen is be taken by surprise. It will be bad enough being hit by a stronger force, but if they trap you in the house with a surprise attack, you may not make it out.

    5) Intel: you will have no Intel if television and radio / internet services are offline. The only Intel you may be able to gather may be via visiting neighbors (patrolling by foot or vehicle) and by HAM radio. HAM may give you (at least by a listening watch) a general idea of what is going on in your region, and threats plus developments.

    6) Security: you will not be able to man a security rotation. You may or may not have obstacles or route denial as per the previous post obstacle – and this will interact a little with keeping a low profile, depending on how you do it. If you are short handed, you may consider relying more on technology, such as ground sensors and ingress alarms. You may even consider drone use if you can support all this with a power / recharge source. You cannot however, as the husband, spend all your time hanging out in the control room: this will not only cause tension with your wife, doing all the chores as usual, and events will have to be investigated. You need at least occasional feet on the ground.

    7) Tactical emergencies. I wrote about this in the bugging out post. You may be able to deal with some threats on your own, and not have to evacuate. If a serious threat comes in, you definitely want early warning and you need to have procedures with your wife for her and the kids, practice this to minimize panic. You may have code words – one results in collecting the kids and moving to a secure location in the house, where she is armed to protect the kids in case anyone gets through. You, of course, want to throw your gear on (ballistic plates as per the MVT Lite Fight Concept) and deploy outside to defend the house from outside if at all possible. Either before the threat traps you in the house, if it turns out to be stronger than expected, or immediately if an overwhelming threat is identified at stand-off, a second codeword should mean move to an alternate location outside of the house. This is a temporary bug-out / rally point location, maybe back in the woods or in another building whatever your situation is. The wife and kids wait there for a certain period, and the husband joins if he can. From there it is either a forced bug-out or a reoccupation of the house, whether husband made it or not.

    If you do not make it, ensure that the wife and kids are as prepared as possible with a plan for survival. I am fully aware that in current times many wives are not on side with any of this, maybe partially, or maybe not at all. Attitudes will change once a disaster happens, but you may still have a lot off issues to deal with. Panic and unpreparedness is the main one.

    8) Day to day you will have to balance the requirements of survival life with that of being tactically prepared and alert, as well as wearing / staging your tactical gear such as rifle and plate carrier as you move from location and chore. This is a true situation where you may have to use your handgun to fight to your rifle, and then fight to your full gear.

    Given that the greatest challenge most tactically prepared people face is finding and establishing team with other suitable people, the above situation with isolated families is trying to survive on their own is probably very likely. It is the situation you are in right now if an emergency happens. Also, given expense and the busyness of life, it is only the most avid prepper who is going to have his property locked up with ground sensors, alarms and drone flights. For most of us, that just isn’t happening right now. We can seek solace in technology, throwing money at the problem, but we have to be realistic; most of us live a much more analog life, with no real measures in place on our property. Your best bet is initial survival as a family unit, then consider trying to consolidate with trusted people that you know. This may involve vehicle movement in a hostile environment (coming up again in Texas in February).

    Your greatest personal asset is the tactical knowledge and training you carry around in your head, and the physical fitness you have been training at in order to allow you to perform. The ‘retreat / porch sniper’ thinks he can defend his house from his porch, and he is either going to die there, or find himself flopping about trying to bug his fat-ass out with a ruck he never carried. You may need to be flexible and adapt to a dynamic situation. Through association with MVT and TacGun, you have the greatest chance of meeting and networking with good people who will have some level of tactical training and awareness. This is also a great strength of this forum. You may well not have supplies of mountain house in each other’s basement, but if you are friends and have gained a level of trust, you may be able to organize, while in a rapidly deteriorating situation, some sort of team effort.

    #53512
    Profile photo of Joe (G.W.N.S.)
    Joe (G.W.N.S.)
    Moderator

    This is the most difficult problem faced by any rational person concerned with security during any hostile event situation.

    There are no good options, but we must face the situation realistically with as much dispassion as we can.

    Everything will ride on early warning, being surprised can easily result loss of life of those we hold most dear. Of course there are even worse possibilities that I will leave to your imaginations.

    As mentioned by Max there are options in the form of sensors. Dogs maybe of use, but as much as they play into my own plans they could also be a liability too depending on your situation.

    I consider it a given; fantasies not notwithstanding, you will need a fallback position and a cache(s) as insurance of your survival.

    I will wait for further comment to address various options.

    #53513
    Profile photo of Darkrivers
    Darkrivers
    Participant

    Great post!

    If you're gonna fight, fight like you're the 3rd monkey on the ramp to Noah's Ark... And Brother, it's starting to rain! James from Texas

    #53514
    Profile photo of Max Velocity
    Max
    Keymaster

    Fall back options addressed in the bug out post HERE

    MVT Lite Fight Gear Concept HERE

    Obstacle use HERE

    This article should raise questions. It is designed to.

    #53517
    Profile photo of MrB
    MrB
    Participant

    I would suspect that the most dangerous time would be after dark and therefore it would likely pay to have some sort of watch detail after dark even if its just someone to “raise the alarm”. During the day, it would likely be as Max described, everyone having an eye over there shoulder as they do daily chores and remaining low key.

    The last thing I would want is to wake up having something go bump in the night and it not be me doing the “bumping” :heart:

    RS/ CTT Aug 16

    Effort is no guarantee of success, it only removes the guarantee of failure

    #53518
    Profile photo of Max Velocity
    Max
    Keymaster

    I actually forgot my bullet point on night time. Grid down, it will ne black as pitch at night, excepting a good moon state. You need to plan to operate, at least keep watch, at night. Consider a thermal FLIR scout for watch amd patrolling purposes. PVS 14.

    There is detail on that in the considerations for night operations post HERE.

    #53519
    Profile photo of Darkrivers
    Darkrivers
    Participant

    What are the best SOP’s for night sentries?

    If you're gonna fight, fight like you're the 3rd monkey on the ramp to Noah's Ark... And Brother, it's starting to rain! James from Texas

    #53520
    Profile photo of Max Velocity
    Max
    Keymaster

    What are the best SOP’s for night sentries?

    Clarify. Are you referring to sentry challenge procedures, rules of engagement? Perhaps how to keep watch at night?

    #53522
    Profile photo of Darkrivers
    Darkrivers
    Participant

    How to keep watch at night plus anything you think is relevant since idkwidk. Thanks.

    If you're gonna fight, fight like you're the 3rd monkey on the ramp to Noah's Ark... And Brother, it's starting to rain! James from Texas

    #53530
    Profile photo of Max Velocity
    Max
    Keymaster

    How to keep watch at night plus anything you think is relevant since idkwidk.

    Duties of a sentry is actually a large topic. There are differences for a patrol base and for something like a retreat location, where we may be more along the lines of permanent observation posts, or entry control points.

    Do me a favor, before I start writing essays, review what is covered in Contact, and also the considerations for night operations post, and let me know what questions, or gaps are raised.

    #53533
    Profile photo of Robert
    Robert
    Participant

    Great post.

    These truths become evident when living at your retreat full time very easily. We have been boots on the ground full time at our retreat for 17 years this month. There is ALWAYS something that needs to be done, always something that needs to be fixed, something that needs to be upgraded, etc. etc.

    What does that mean? That dreaded four letter word- WORK :)

    The moral of the story- have as much done pre-SHTF as possible. I talk to people every day that “are going to do blah blah blah” when the time comes. Why the hell not do it now? Some things will have to wait till SHTF, I mean you can’t start stringing razor wire everywhere can you? But a good bit can and definitely SHOULD be taken care of ahead of time.

    I don’t even mean normal survival stuff like having adequate food stores, water sources, etc. I mean everything that can be hardened should be hardened. Got an LP tank? Does it have ballistic cover? Then it’s a couple bullets away from being useless, or worse. God forbid it’s right up against your house where the lazy gas man always wants to put it to “save you money” on your gas lines. Water tanks? Let’s keep it simple, living structure? What can you prep NOW to help that when something happens? Perhaps having enough sandbags pre made up stored in a shed will help? Empty that big ole chest of drawers and fill it full of sandbags when the time comes. Is your floor slab on grade or joists? What are the joists and what spacing? Any decent carpentry book will give you an idea of weight load once you know this. Is more bridging needed or reinforcement of joists? Again, something you can/should do now.

    Firewood. Got a few winters worth of wood split, stacked and drying? Again, not something you want to “have” to do post SHTF for a while- chainsaws are loud, wood splitter is loud, the alternatives that are quiet are extremely time consuming.

    Living this way, we have to find TIME AND LABOR savers on everything we can.

    Have a generator? OK after you answered the above question about hardening where it is located, what are you going to do with it? Keep crap in a freezer cold and run the xbox for the kids? That’s a waste. Start emptying the freezers Day 1 and get the kids reading. What about laundry? Ever done wash by hand? It’s sucks arse… Even with a good AE system that runs these things regularly I keep an old washer stored away. Why? Cause I know the PITA it is to try to handwash stuff and to even a few times a week to run a washer even via a genset if need be WILL save time and labor.

    And just like buying lighter weight gear to be more efficient (and probably be able to carry more ammo, water and food), tools for labor saving for day to day living make your whole setup more efficient.

    I was told once that I was essentially a sissy homesteader because I had a logsplitter and rarely split wood by hand. That logsplitter can split all our wood for a year in a relatively short period of time and it’s never taken more than about 2 gallons of gas to do about 2 years worth of wood at a time. How many DAYS would I be hand splitting that much wood? But the noise right? Yes, again that’s why you do those things now. Wood is cheap, usually free if you look around, all it takes is time and energy to prep. Having 3-5 years of firewood stored up isn’t an expensive option. That means several years or not having chainsaws running after something does happen- noise discipline, time and labor issues.

    You can take this time/labor saving thing all the way down to having a good portion of your storage food as ready to eat or quick ready foods like Mt. House freeze dried, MRE’s, etc. Definitely don’t want to eat them everyday. Back to time/labor saving- bake your own bread from scratch a few times (that means grinding wheat, etc.) and see the time saved.

    And that’s how “Momma” can be a part of the security plan also- because these time and labor savings things will allow her more time that would otherwise just be dedicated to at least one person full time doing things like: hauling water, possibly purifying it, chopping wood, cooking (how?), watching the kids, laundry (sans Maytag), gardening and putting up next year’s food, etc.

    If you don’t plan ahead for these logistical things, you will likely have to do most of them by hand, with a tremendous amount of labor and time involved. If you do plan ahead you can set up work arounds or have certain supplies in place (5 years of firewood= 4 years without needing to cut and split more), a year supply of food = no need to scrabble around to find or worse off try to grow more for the first time ever doing that (for a lot of people). Anyone who is honest that homesteads will tell you just how hard it is to truly grow even a reasonable portion of the food you need every year. The new prepper notion of just having a #10 can of heirloom garden seeds and perhaps a shovel being enough to keep you fed is absolute BS.

    So, get your preps in order and that will help with some of these things. However it will never totally replace your need for more hands. But it can truly free more of the family up for defensive purposes.

    Groups-

    Smart people know they want to be a part of one. Problem is finding a good one and then being willing to conform to that group. Oh boy, I used that word didn’t it- conform to others, well shit that ends that right! Hell no I’m not conforming!! LOL

    But the reality is that this is usually more important than we realize. Quite a few preppers have terrible social skills. As someone who interacts with quite a few of them daily, I can tell you this is God’s truth. Max will likely back me up on this, we have certainly discussed this more than a time or three :good:

    There is a saying if you want to have friends you need to show yourself friendly. Many in society just don’t get that any more. It’s about “me” in our society today and that reflects a lot in individuals.

    With groups you will need a big “filter”. Too often however we get way too amped up just (finally) meeting someone who claims to be like minded or that is training or has trained somewhere like MVT.

    Slow down, take your time. Move slow with new people. Every time I’ve rushed into things with anyone it has never worked out. 31 years of doing this and let me reiterate- take your time, rushing into things with people never works out.

    Often times you will see little “clues” that people are unreliable or have character issues that will preclude you wanting to group up with them early on, but you are in what I call the “honeymoon phase” wherein you are amped to have a new friends, a new prepping/training buddy. These clues are always there, but we often don’t recognize them till later. Selfishness issues, a lax attitude towards training (PT included), comparing themselves and “competing” with others in the group, etc. These are all clues, but few catch them or figure it’s not necessary to see them. Trust me, it is.

    This is not to say it’s all too hard, don’t bother. It is hard work, but it is worth it. More later.

    www.jrhenterprises.com
    RMP, TC3, NODF, CRCD 6/14, CP 9/14. NODF, Land Nav, 6/15. Rifleman Challenge 9/15- Vanguard. FOFtactics 3/16, 10/16, 11/16, 6/17,11/17 CTT, 6/15, 11/16, , LRMC-1 9/17 GA Mobile CTT and DA 10/16, GA mobile DCH 3/18, HEAT1 3/18 Alum weekend 8/18, Opfor CLC 10/18, DA 11/18 CQBC 12/18

    #53534
    Profile photo of Darkrivers
    Darkrivers
    Participant

    Robert, Great input.
    Max, I will review Contact and follow up with more specific questions.

    If you're gonna fight, fight like you're the 3rd monkey on the ramp to Noah's Ark... And Brother, it's starting to rain! James from Texas

    #53535
    Profile photo of wheelsee
    wheelsee
    Participant

    @Robert brings up good points, especially interpersonal dynamics. To prevent thread hijack, go to this thread https://forum.maxvelocitytactical.com/forums/topic/youre-being-manipulated-but-its-not-personal/ and read the link Brigand has

    My problem/issue is while I live in a small town (9K when we moved here 17 years ago), it has now grown to 47K. My profession (medical) led me to a Level I trauma Center in the DFW metroplex. I have tried working in the smaller towns but medicine seems to be 20-40 years behind the times (and admin is only interested in “patient satisfaction” which means revenue versus evidenced-based medicine).

    We have planted thorny roses in front of our windows. IR cameras provide monitoring. Fences have been raised to 8′ and are now privacy in nature. The neighborhood is all electric as my wife had a very bad experience as a child with gas and is terrified of it. We do have several large propane tanks and her fears have diminished with the new safety features.

    The house is a standard brick veneer on a city lot with water shortages occasional. We store water as well as rainwater for irrigation (small garden) and filtering if needed for drinking/cooking.

    We use a cargo trailer (6×12) for camping and have made it as self-sufficient as possible – solar panel up top, 12-volt cooler/freezer, LED lighting, and composting toilet. The solar panel (100w, 36v) provides all of the electrical needs for several days, with battery backup.

    Thanks to Max, his books, and the various replies here, I’m look at things in a different light and trying to figure alternatives.

    Which is heavier - a soldier's pack or a slave's chains? Napoleon

    Strength, Honor. Maximus (Gladiator)

    If you tolerate evil, you yourself are evil.
    Col Hugo Martinez, Commander Search Bloc

    William, in The Republic - CRS/CTT 2017, HEAT 2/CQB/FonF 2018, DCH 2018

    #53539
    Profile photo of Joe (G.W.N.S.)
    Joe (G.W.N.S.)
    Moderator

    Don’t forget doing an IPB (Intelligence Preparation of the Battlefield) is applicable to this also.

    …Level I trauma Center in the DFW metroplex.

    As a example giving Wheelsee’s comment. A IPB will address the two nuclear reactors in that area; taking into account prevailing winds, what if any threat could this present giving a variety of “Events?”

    This is one of many things to be addressed.

    Awfully embarrassing to prepare for the “horde” and die from radiation exposure! ;-)

    #53552
    Profile photo of Wes
    wesmc
    Participant

    Great post, Max, and nice follow-up, Robert.

    One aspect of preparedness I’ve not seen covered, regarding a prolonged grid-down situation, is entertainment. With electronics being a thing of the past, it would be wise to have some skilled, hard-working, hard-fighting(?) singers, musicians, storytellers/bullshitters and such, but I suppose that introduces more opsec concerns. Just need to keep the noise down a bit, not get too rowdy and party like it’s TEOTWAWKI ;-)

    C2G Feb 2015, CTT March 2016, CQB June 2018

    #53595
    Profile photo of Joe (G.W.N.S.)
    Joe (G.W.N.S.)
    Moderator

    From Civilian-Centric Tactical Questions, but thought this was a better Thread.

    Mainly in a without rule of law situation.

    So you are back to the single family situation.

    Have a good bug out plan, need ballistic protection for a safe area for family.

    What’s the water table? As in can you have a hidden cellar?

    If you can’t defend then hide or run is all that’s left.

    #53598
    Profile photo of Darkrivers
    Darkrivers
    Participant

    I would think that without a group of even minimally trained defenders most homes/neighborhoods would not really be defensible. Going it alone seems to be a fantasy only viable in action movies or a situation where terrain can severely limit movement of attackers.

    If you're gonna fight, fight like you're the 3rd monkey on the ramp to Noah's Ark... And Brother, it's starting to rain! James from Texas

    #53600
    Profile photo of Joe (G.W.N.S.)
    Joe (G.W.N.S.)
    Moderator

    Going it alone seems to be a fantasy only viable in action movies or a situation where terrain can severely limit movement of attackers.

    As Max mentioned in the “obstacle” Thread, it’s about not being surprised and buying time.

    If you can’t defend then hide or run is all that’s left.

    This isn’t about some haphazard spur of the moment thing!

    It’s about a well thought out and practiced plan. Once the realization is made that you can’t defend against anything more than “X” then any contact involves preparing to execute your hide/egress.

    “X” being pretty much any organized opposition group.

    The hide/egress plan must have many redundancies and planned variations to cover multiple contingencies.

    Think it’s difficult?

    No kidding!

    If the solution was easy it wouldn’t take so much work.

    The more serious effort put into planning the better your chances of success, but there are no guarantees and you may still die.

    Of course to do nothing won’t improve your odds! ;-)

    #53604
    Profile photo of wheelsee
    wheelsee
    Participant

    Since I’m essentially a single-player (spouse has little interest in any of this), I try to find those “force multipliers” (or in this case “resource multipliers’).

    Surveillance – I use these https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00YZF8GFC/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1

    If I were to do again, I would have bought the 16-channel. You don’t realize how useful these things are until you start using them. They are IR, so monitor during the night also. The program sends me an email when the programmed alert happens. I get to choose the sections alarmed and what happens afterwards.

    The doors are hardened, the jambs have jamb-armor https://armorconcepts.com/collections/door-jamb-armor/products/universal-door-jamb-armor-combo-set-2-3-8-backset

    We collect rainwater (two 300 gallon reservoirs) and have Sawyer water filters. We also have two 55-gallon water barrels full of city water and a water bob for the bathtub https://www.amazon.com/WaterBOB-Emergency-Drinking-Storage-Gallons/dp/B001AXLUX2/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1512780018&sr=8-1&keywords=water+bob+for+bathtub+water+storage

    We have a Nature’s Head toilet that separates the urine from the solid. With just 2 of us, the toilet shouldn’t need emptying of solid waste for at least a month. The urine container holds 1/2 gallon and is easily removed.

    I have a 100w, 36v solar panel that looking at getting a couple more then putting on the patio roof for charging batteries. Still figuring out the wattage required for various appliances.

    Just finished rebuilding the privacy fence. The soil here is a black gumbo and moves up/down a good bit. Decided to pour a perimeter wall sub-grade to keep the fence straight and more difficult for the dogs digging under. We raised the fence from 6′ to 8′ to assist in privacy.

    Still need to put the hurricane film on the windows. And put roses in front of the windows (still trying to talk the spouse into that one….)

    Which is heavier - a soldier's pack or a slave's chains? Napoleon

    Strength, Honor. Maximus (Gladiator)

    If you tolerate evil, you yourself are evil.
    Col Hugo Martinez, Commander Search Bloc

    William, in The Republic - CRS/CTT 2017, HEAT 2/CQB/FonF 2018, DCH 2018

    #53631
    Profile photo of Overwatch
    Overwatch
    Participant

    Back to time/labor saving- bake your own bread from scratch a few times (that means grinding wheat, etc.) and see the time saved.

    Some advice i can share on making your own bread and grinding your own wheat. We have been grinding our own wheat for everyday baking and have found that recipes need to be tweaked a little. I make pancakes that are all home ground flour and because the flour is courser in size i need more liquid in the recipe. I also add another egg. Be sure to drink LOTS of water when eating your own flour. This is VERY important. If you don’t then there is a very good chance you will have terrible gas pain and bloating that can be very debilitating. The course flour keeps soaking up moisture after you eat it like rice that was not fully cooked. Having a couple of glasses of water with the meal will fix the problem.

    #53633
    Profile photo of Max Velocity
    Max
    Keymaster

    Back to time/labor saving- bake your own bread from scratch a few times (that means grinding wheat, etc.) and see the time saved.

    Please clarify – this is saving time?

    As for grinding my on wheat and baking my own bread, I am so far from that! Do you grow your own wheat?

    This is where the divide between being prepared for disasters, and homesteading is. I simply do not have the time in my daily life for homesteading. Time islimited enough with a basic hobby farm, building barns and fences, withoit even taking into consideration wotk needed at the VTC. I think many others with full time jobs are the same.

    Not to say people should not homestead if they want to, but I think we should be realistic with what we are aspiring to for most in our day to day lives. I know my aim has never to be a self sufficient homesteader. Simply more prepared.

    Can you let us know a little more about your circumstances, overwatch?

    #53640
    Profile photo of jathayde
    jathayde
    Participant

    Great insight, Max and Robert.

    I wouldn’t call it saving time

    I used to grind my own wheat and tried the whole “hand made” approach for a short time, mostly just to understand what it involved. It involves a very sore arm, and a half an hour to get enough for a loaf or two. (Country Living Grain mill). Upgraded to the mechanized (just a motor attachment with a belt) and now it’s just supervising it while doing other tasks around it. Arm feels much better. I (or someone else) could easily do 6+ loaves of wheat in the time it took me to do one or two while completing other tasks in the vicinity

    We do bake our own bread here at home but use a bread machine, again because of time. I can spend 5 minutes getting the batch ready, drop it in, and come back four hours later to awesomeness. No checking to see if it’s risen, etc. Machine handles it all. Even in a grid down where electric cooking might not be doable, the mixing and kneading action of the machine would be worth attaching it to the battery for a while, and then taking it and putting it in the oven (there’s a setting that’s effectively a non-bake dough maker setting on many machines).

    #53643
    Profile photo of Robert
    Robert
    Participant

    Back to time/labor saving- bake your own bread from scratch a few times (that means grinding wheat, etc.) and see the time saved.

    Some advice i can share on making your own bread and grinding your own wheat. We have been grinding our own wheat for everyday baking and have found that recipes need to be tweaked a little. I make pancakes that are all home ground flour and because the flour is courser in size i need more liquid in the recipe. I also add another egg. Be sure to drink LOTS of water when eating your own flour. This is VERY important. If you don’t then there is a very good chance you will have terrible gas pain and bloating that can be very debilitating. The course flour keeps soaking up moisture after you eat it like rice that was not fully cooked. Having a couple of glasses of water with the meal will fix the problem.

    Yes. Most are used to processed, nutritionally stripped and bleached white flour. Cooking with whole grains will be a much different deal. I remember the first time I did some “cracked wheat cereal” in a thermos over night and ate the wheat berries in the morning. They came out about the same as they went in… :wacko:

    Over time your body does get used to these things a bit however.

    www.jrhenterprises.com
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