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Ruck / Patrol pack

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This topic contains 27 replies, has 15 voices, and was last updated by Profile photo of Brian from Georgia Brian from Georgia 1 year, 11 months ago.

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  • #41579
    Profile photo of Jason Howe
    BrothersKeeper
    Participant

    I still don’t think I have really solved the issue of simultaneously carrying both the ruck and patrol pack at the same time. In Contact and the novels Max describes the scenario where you get bumped by a superior force, you break contact but it’s clear you have to run in order to survive. You can’t run with the ruck on so it must be dumped, never to be seen again. It’s at this time you remove the patrol pack from your ruck and you have the bare necessities to possibly survive for three days . . . maybe. Before CP in October of ’15 I bought what I thought was the answer to this puzzle, which was the 511 72 hour pack and the 511 All hazards nitro bag. The all hazards bag was about a third the size of the 72 hour bag and 511 has a nice set of connectors that allows you to marry many of their bags to each other. I thought this was the answer. Then I discovered that the book bag like qualities of the 511 bags do not lend themselves to proper rucking. Enter Karrimor. Max plugged the qualities of Karrimor rucks so I got myself the sabre 45 along with a couple of the amazing side pouches you can zip to the side of the bag. Beautiful bag and I am very happy with it. It does not have an effective bladder pouch inside so I purchased the Karrimor 3 liter tactical hydration system. I am able to strap this effectively to the back of the ruck and the bladder hose runs nicely to the front of the bag. I have all the recommended items in my ruck, leaving no space for a patrol bag to be stuffed anywhere, let alone with all the items I would want in the patrol bag. I feel it’s almost an either/or scenario. I’m either on an extended patrol with my ruck, or I’m on local patrol near base with my patrol bag. Currently if I have to run and I leave my ruck, I would quickly remove the hydration bladder, which can be worn like any standard camelback system, and I would survive on the rations and equipment I store on my chest rig and battle belt. As far as the patrol bag goes, I have decided to use the Karrimor hydro 30, which is a smaller pack designed around a 3 liter bladder. It has some very nice ergonomics that make it super comfortable and durable with ample space to store enough bare necessities to survive for a good 3 days. I’ve been doing long rucks with both these packs and they have performed really well, I just don’t see a viable option of carrying both at the same time.

    Land Nav 06/15
    Rifle Skills/CTT/CP
    10/15
    CLC 04/17
    Alumni Live Fire 08/18

    Don’t let your past define your future.

    #41582
    Profile photo of tango
    tango
    Participant

    Your patrol pack is not going to sustain you for 3 days. And keep in mind “survive” is a lot rougher than you might imagine. You could survive for 3 days with a water container, filter/iodine, no food, a waterproof layer, and shit else if you were by some miracle able to evade your pursuers that long and had good fieldcraft.

    Also keep in mind breaking contact under fire is one of the hardest things you can do. There’s a reason that in your mind it seems crazy that you would be running away, fighting, and trying to fiddle with a pack at the same time. It is crazy!

    Give me a minute and I’ll put together a full response to this on the patrol pack and ruck, how I integrate them, and which ones I use. There are other people more “qualified” than myself but hopefully you’ll see what I’ve got is fairly well laid out and not super expensive.

    Baptême du feu
    L'appel du vide

    #41588
    Profile photo of tango
    tango
    Participant

    Most of this I learned from Diz in his various posts. Some I picked up from picture of active duty troops or just surfing the web. There is nothing here that I claim to have invented. This is just (1) way of doing things.

    My Ruck of choice: Large Alice Pack
    Standard Alice Frame (Tactical Tailor frame is undoubtedly better)
    DCU Molle II Waist Belt and Straps
    Paraclete Large GP Pouch
    “Willy Peter” waterproof liner
    Plastic Buckles
    Grand Total: $112.88

    Patrol Pack: Refactor Tactical SSE Bag
    I wouldn’t recommend this exact bag for this purpose just yet but you get the idea of size constraints.
    Grand Total: ~$90

    The Paraclete pouch on top is just like your Karrimor with the bullet top. I put the stupid stuff up there like foot powder, baby wipes, soap, headlamp, glow sticks, folding saw, batteries, etc. It’s an accessory pocket for things I can live without but would prefer not to dig into my ruck for. And that weight adds up. Keeping it close to your body helps distribute the weight a lot better.

    The Alice pack is bone stock except for the plastic buckles – no sewing, no additions, nothing is cut off. Nothing fancy here. Regular Alice frame fitted with Molle straps just like any other hellcat pack. Waterproof liner inside, 2Qt canteen and waterproof cover in the radio pouch, sleep system and clothes in the main compartment. It did take a bit longer than originally imagined to get the straps to be adjusted properly to avoid any discomfort but now that they’re dialed it’s no factor.

    The big pouches on the outside of the Alice hold MSR stove, fuel, USGI canteen cup, and mountain house.

    Patrol pack contents:
    (4) Magazines
    3L Bladder w/ inline filter
    1 Field Stripped MRE
    Rifle Cleaning Kit
    Rifle spare parts kit
    (2) Glow Sticks
    Waterproof jacket
    Binoculars
    Hat+Gloves
    Electrical Tape
    Bug Spray

    If you’re rucking along with the patrol pack in the full ruck and – CRAP, BREAK CONTACT – then as soon as possible the patrol pack comes out of the ruck. Just 2 buckles to open the lid and yank that thing out. See pics below. As Max espouses in his system, the patrol pack is worn all the time. This patrol pack loadout really doesn’t change much at all. When it’s time to go rucking just throw it in the ruck.

    Can I survive for 3 days out of my patrol pack? Yeah. I will be alive at my destination under most weather conditions. But I am not sustaining myself for 3 days. Big difference. When instructors are saying “survive” they mean in the most basic sense. You will be alive but positively in a degraded state. When I first started this stuff my idea of surviving was a bit more lavish, as maybe some other people, so that tends to lead to thinking you need to pack more than you do.

    I do also have a civilian alpine ruck for hiking that is very similar to the Karrimor Sabre 45 you have. Is it better or worse than the Alice? Neither. The alpine pack definitely feels more immediately comfortable but it isn’t organized the same way as the Alice. I personally find the need for pouches with the alpine packs rather non-tactical (as iterated by Diz). The Alice also has no zippers or velcro (save my added pouch). The tall alpine pack so close to my head annoys me when prone, or with a helmet. Maybe it’s just because of my build, take that FWIW.

    Take a look at these pictures, see what you think.

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    Baptême du feu
    L'appel du vide

    #41596
    Profile photo of Brian from Georgia
    Brian from Georgia
    Participant

    I’m certainly no expert but here we go.
    I tried the patrol pack-on-a-ruck – at MVT patrol class on those god-forsaken hills, no less. While it wasn’t required (and certainly not the smartest decision), I packed the ruck with 3 days worth of food, 6 extra mags and 4 quarts of water along with the other minimum amount of equipment. The ruck hit 35 lbs alone.

    The patrol pack was lightly equipped but still hit 15 lbs. My battle belt with 6 mags, 2 qts of water and other gear was 20 lbs.

    Throw in a rifle near 10 lbs and I was hauling 80 pounds. I was smoked at the top of the hill leading from the school house.

    My conclusion: I’m just going to have to learn to do without a lot of stuff. I took Max’s recommendation of 50 lbs all up to heart and dunped a bunch.

    If I plan to overnight for a day or more, I’ll use a ruck and no patrol pack. If I have the ruck (which I might have to drop), I’ll carry a minimum of stuff on my person via chest rig and lite battle belt or just a heavy battle belt.

    I’m doing a 24 hour patrol FTX in a few weeks. I just packed my stuff for the occasion. Here’s how it worked out.

    Battle Belt: 19 lbs
    (2) 1 qt canteens
    (6) mags
    IFAK +2 TQ
    Sustainment pouch with 2000 calories, water filter

    Ruck (medium ALICE w/o frame): 28 lbs
    Light patrol sleeping bag in bivvy
    I spare shirt, 1 pr spare socks, foot powder
    Waterproof bag
    3L Camelbak in the radio pouch
    Foam pad
    3000 calories food (2 stripped MREs plus energy bars, peanut butter)
    100′ 550 cord
    Poncho as a tarp
    PVS-14, Crye nightcap, spare batteries

    So that’s 47 lbs not counting my rifle. Add a couple more pounds for stuff in my pockets like map, compass and knife.

    I can stretch 5000 calories to 3 days if required. If I have to dump the ruck, I still have 2 qts water, a filter, 2000 calories and 210 rounds of ammo. If I can’t make it out of there with that, I’m hosed anyway.

    3-4 Aug 2013 CRCD, 2-6 Aug 2014 CRCD/Patrol, 30 Sep 2016 Run n Gun, 1-2 Oct 2016 FoF, 3-4 March 2018 DCH alumni
    Team Coyote

    #41597
    Profile photo of Hello Kitty (Craig)
    hellokitty
    Participant

    Don’t carry both the 30 and the 45. You want a very small hydration pack to carry a few mission related items only, not live out of. That’s what your ruck is for.

    CTT 1502, NODF 1502, CP 1503, RC 002- Rifleman, FoF x 2, Run and Gun, RS/CTT, CLC, CQBC, Heat 1

    Craig S.

    #41604
    Profile photo of Max Velocity
    Max
    Keymaster

    People not reading my numerous posts!

    Stop planning on carry a bergan (ruck).

    You do not have a bergan (ruck), you have a patrol pack. A full size ruck will simply take a 30 liter patrol pack under the lid, it is that simple. But don’t do it.

    The Karrimor 45 is a compromises ‘mid-size ruck / large patrol pack. It is designed for when you have to planned overnight.

    The Karrimor 30 is what you want day to day. This is your ‘lite daypack.’ It will not fit on the 45. The 345 is standalone max heavy load you want to go. You probably can’t carry tat filled and stay below 50 lbs.

    We carry reasonably sized rucks at the patrol class overnight simply to teach the patrol base with sufficient gear in all weathers. .

    #41630
    Profile photo of Jamison
    Jamison
    Participant

    Brother,

    This is all about planning, if you’re going to be going on a week long patrol, you’re going to need a larger ruck, and just plan on ditching a patrol/72/24hr pack. You need to be able to fight with what’s on your 2nd line. That’s why I always carry a canteen on my vest/belt because the water bladder is generally going to be attached to either a pack/ruck. I don’t like them in between my back and ruck because it just doesn’t work for me, I don’t know if it would work for somebody else tho.

    If you’re going to a patrol base and you are planning on conducting patrols out of that base, then it would make sense to run a ruck and a smaller bag.

    If you’re going to do that, My suggestion with your specific bag would be to take the tier system that you already have. Put the buckles on so you can add it in between the buckles that hold down the top lid, then, either make or get extensions for those side straps and run that around the bag as well.

    I don’t have any pictures of what my setup is. I’m not sure if I explained it well enough, but your SMALLEST pack will be buckled on top and bottom, where top is buckled into the bergen lid, bottom is buckled into the cinch straps on the bottom of the ruck and the side compression straps go over the the sides of the bag and only connect with the opposite sides on the bergen.

    At the most if I’m running that setup, I’d want a super small pack, like holds a camel back, a little extra food, hard shell jacket and mags. This is out for a day, maybe overnight, but you’re going to be cold anyways, so maybe space for a woobie and a poncho if you’re headed out overnight and a pair of sockes. So maybe 15 lbs loaded with water and ammo.

    But… If I’m just out patrolling for say 3 days, its that Karrimor 45, in it, small fart sack w/bivy, poncho hooch and small ground pad. 1 change of clothes a lot of socks, Hard shell jacket, watch cap, and snivel gear if needed. Then it’s enough food for 3 days, lot’s of water, depending on the area, you’re looking at packing it all in. or… a good amount of water and a filter, or tabs or whatever you want to use. Don’t forget cooking/water heating. Last is any mission essential gear that you need. Bare bones minimal.

    You’re looking for the least amount of weight that you can get away with.

    Reaction on contact, dump the ruck, you aren’t going to need it if you’re dead, if you’re e&e post contact then you don’t want the weight anyways, if you regain the ground, you can always get your gear later.

    Admit nothing. Deny everything. Make counter-accusations.

    Nulla fatere. Nega omnia. Accusatis calumniatorem. Demanda probationem.

    #41632
    Profile photo of Max Velocity
    Max
    Keymaster

    Such limited time before the squad attack, so much to unfuck! Some bullet points:

    Don’t carry more than you can fight in.

    Plan mission smart.

    30 liter is the ideal lite daypack size.

    You will not dump that, but fight in it. Water bladder inside to 30 liter.

    50 lb max all up fight load.

    If you are planning patrol base operations, you will need a full size ruck. More so in winter.

    Full size ruck is like an ALICE/PLCE. The lite daypack goes on top.

    You are not looking for some sort of technical clip solution, and you do not want the lite daypack on the back of the ruck. On top.

    Critical to understand: the lite 30 l patrol pack is part of your ruck load. The patrol pack sits on the top under the lid and take up (pushed down on) the capacity of the main ruck. It is just that you have essential gear not on the ruvk, but on the patrol pack? Get it?

    For patrol base ops, you dump the ruck and patrol with the 30 liter patrol pack. Patrol and fight.

    The 45 liter karrimor is just a midway compromize for when you plan to stay overnight or have to carry other bulky but light gear. If you wear it, you fight in it. You don’t attach a smaller pack to it.

    Plan ops with logistic support for your ruck, or from home base, using only the 30 liter daypack.

    Do not ruck out unless essential. Do not carry the 45 liter unless essential

    Stop trying to make perfect load outs of all the gear and the kitchen sink. Carry what you can get away with. Ammo, water, food, nught vision, batteries, med, limited warm/wet gear. Have a way of purifying water in an emergency. Emergency energy. Keep it lite as possible and small. No additional widgets.

    Packing lists are your enemy. Two is too many, one may be too much. Zero is better!

    Is this understandable?

    #41633
    Profile photo of Max Velocity
    Max
    Keymaster

    P.S. the 30 liter patrol pack lays crossways across the top of the PLVE ruck under the lid. It pushes down and compresses the main compartmemt, taking up its volume. Because what would have been in the main compartment is in the 30 liter daypack. All that is in the main ruck compartment is bulky gear like sleeping gear, and spare rations etc.

    #41636
    Profile photo of Jason Howe
    BrothersKeeper
    Participant

    Thank you Max, and everyone else. It seems like I missed that particular memo. I was really focused on the Karrimor 45 as being my long term ruck. I just wasn’t seeing it work. The lightbulb is on now. You don’t know what you don’t know strikes again. Now I know. That’s why I come here, to get unf&#*~%d with all my overthinking. Can’t wait to find out what else I don’t know. ;-)

    Land Nav 06/15
    Rifle Skills/CTT/CP
    10/15
    CLC 04/17
    Alumni Live Fire 08/18

    Don’t let your past define your future.

    #41646
    Profile photo of Groundwork
    Groundwork
    Participant

    Max,

    There are a lot of flavors of Karrimor 30 daypacks. Are you referring to either of the following or another one altogether?

    http://www.kitmonster.co.uk/product_info.php/cPath/48/products_id/1800

    http://www.kitmonster.co.uk/product_info.php/cPath/48/products_id/1594

    While I’m pretty sure you’re sick of patrol pack questions already, please…don’t…yell at me? :yahoo:

    #41649
    Profile photo of Max Velocity
    Max
    Keymaster

    The SF Predator 30.

    #41652
    Profile photo of Steven W.
    fabio
    Participant

    I’m still figuring out the hellcat mod so I guess I’ll be asking Tango for tips.

    #41770
    Profile photo of
    Anonymous

    I’ll send you a link fabio, instructions with pictures. Can’t get it to post here.

    #41771
    Profile photo of
    Anonymous

    Well crap, the link won’t post on PM either. :unsure:

    #41772
    Profile photo of
    Anonymous

    Type in: libertytreeblogs.blogspot.com/2011/04/building-hellcat-hybrid-ruck-from-us.html

    #41797
    Profile photo of Max Velocity
    Max
    Keymaster

    I see that advice skipped right over and we are back at some monstrosity of a Hellcat. I looked it up. Terrible. Why?

    And do peole think that running the CLC you are going to be moving and living out of a ruck for a week? At no point was that said. Maybe a patrol base, as a lay up prior to mission. You are going to be moving to/from and operating out of the ‘FOB.’ It is about planning and leadership, not ruck packing.

    If you have not squared away the gear as I have designated multiple times, you will suffer. Lite battle belt, Chest rig. Lite (30 liter) patrol pack. That is all you need. If you need a ruck, then the daypack lays across the top, under the lid/straps.

    #41811
    Profile photo of JohnnyMac
    JohnnyMac
    Participant

    Admittedly I have a fondness for packs. I realized though I have a few 20L-ish packs and a few 55l-ish packs but the only intermediate size is an old Blackhawk 3 day. As if I needed an excuse, I just ordered a karrimor SF predator 30. It’s pretty cheap as far as packs go at $85 shipped.

    The large Alice has monstrous capacity and shitty adjustment. Mine has been relegated as a beach bag and for the biannual killer ruck with two bags of wood pellets. It carries the weight pretty poorly and causes me to lean forward quite a bit to counterbalance. I have a soft spot for it because it reminds me of ROTC, but realistically there are way better options out there if you need to carry your home.

    #41813
    Profile photo of
    Anonymous

    ……….You are going to be moving to/from and operating out of the ‘FOB.’……

    Could you please expand/elaborate on this. This might explain many pieces that I have never before managed to fit together.

    #41815
    Profile photo of wheelsee
    wheelsee
    Participant

    I posted in the “Thanks to the pros” but will comment here from a financial perspective. We all like to think we have a “better idea” or “maybe I can do it cheaper by….”. STOP!

    Max and others have given us their advise/recommendations based on BTDT experience. I have never read of them saying “I’ve heard” – their comments on based on ACTUAL experience, again BTDT.

    I’m just as guilty. I see a picture in my head and start working on it. Max has stated here and in class – “you don’t know what you don’t know.”

    So I tried a variety of solutions with a ruck/patrol. So far, just on the patrol pack idea, I have over $100 invested (scratch that, wasted). I ended up going with the Kerrimor SF Predator 30 for $93 on Amazon. Looks like JohnnyMac was able to find even less expensive ($85).

    CONCLUSION – I could have saved over $100 by just doing what Max and others have suggested. Of course, human nature being human nature, there will be many who disagree and try something else….. and end up bitching about it…….

    Which is heavier - a soldier's pack or a slave's chains? Napoleon

    Strength, Honor. Maximus (Gladiator)

    If you tolerate evil, you yourself are evil.
    Col Hugo Martinez, Commander Search Bloc

    William, in The Republic - CRS/CTT 2017, HEAT 2/CQB/FonF 2018, DCH 2018

    #41816
    Profile photo of Joe (G.W.N.S.)
    Joe (G.W.N.S.)
    Moderator

    Max and others have given us their advise/recommendations based on BTDT experience. I have never read of them saying “I’ve heard” – their comments on based on ACTUAL experience, again BTDT.

    I’m just as guilty. I see a picture in my head and start working on it. Max has stated here and in class – “you don’t know what you don’t know.”

    This is a excellent point.

    When Max puts out advice on any topic, he is basing this on experience.

    So when various people continue to discuss solutions that aren’t at least similar to his posted advice, it can be frustrating.

    Max isn’t trying to limit or censor discussion, it’s not about his way or the highway, he is trying to give you a baseline to achieve your goal.

    If you get a group of experts together on any subject you will see minor differences, but there will be a similarity of ideas.

    How many true experts are here?

    If something is drastically different from what our identified subject matter experts are saying you may be setting yourself up for hard lessons.

    If you have particular needs based on environment or your limitations ask for some clarification.

    #41817
    Profile photo of Short Stroke
    Short Stroke
    Participant

    You can get the Karrimor Predator 30 on Nightgearstore for $78 (shipping included) if you sign up for their newsletter and receive an instant 10% discount on orders.

    Danny from VA

    #41899
    Profile photo of
    Anonymous

    The guy wanted to put together a Hellcat, so I gave him some instructions, just trying to be helpful. Not my set-up. I have the chest rig/patrol pack/battle belt myself. I always am willing to listen to good advice.

    I had to hump the ALICE ruck, not the most comfortable rig, and I was a lot younger then.

    #41900
    Profile photo of
    Anonymous

    The pack I’m using is the MOLLE II Woodland Assault/Patrol pack. I converted the cubic inches and it comes out to 31.8 liters. That sounds about the right capacity.

    #41920
    Profile photo of
    Anonymous

    You can get the Karrimor Predator 30 on Nightgearstore for $78 (shipping included) if you sign up for their newsletter and receive an instant 10% discount on orders

    Thanks for that information, it helped. Ordered the Multicam for $91.00 shipped.

    #41953
    Profile photo of Jonny3X
    John3X
    Participant

    I still don’t think I have really solved the issue of simultaneously carrying both the ruck and patrol pack at the same time. In Contact and the novels Max describes the scenario where you get bumped by a superior force, you break contact but it’s clear you have to run in order to survive. You can’t run with the ruck on so it must be dumped, never to be seen again. It’s at this time you remove the patrol pack from your ruck and you have the bare necessities to possibly survive for three days . . . maybe. Before CP in October of ’15 I bought what I thought was the answer to this puzzle, which was the 511 72 hour pack and the 511 All hazards nitro bag. The all hazards bag was about a third the size of the 72 hour bag and 511 has a nice set of connectors that allows you to marry many of their bags to each other. I thought this was the answer. Then I discovered that the book bag like qualities of the 511 bags do not lend themselves to proper rucking. Enter Karrimor. Max plugged the qualities of Karrimor rucks so I got myself the sabre 45 along with a couple of the amazing side pouches you can zip to the side of the bag. Beautiful bag and I am very happy with it. It does not have an effective bladder pouch inside so I purchased the Karrimor 3 liter tactical hydration system. I am able to strap this effectively to the back of the ruck and the bladder hose runs nicely to the front of the bag. I have all the recommended items in my ruck, leaving no space for a patrol bag to be stuffed anywhere, let alone with all the items I would want in the patrol bag. I feel it’s almost an either/or scenario. I’m either on an extended patrol with my ruck, or I’m on local patrol near base with my patrol bag. Currently if I have to run and I leave my ruck, I would quickly remove the hydration bladder, which can be worn like any standard camelback system, and I would survive on the rations and equipment I store on my chest rig and battle belt. As far as the patrol bag goes, I have decided to use the Karrimor hydro 30, which is a smaller pack designed around a 3 liter bladder. It has some very nice ergonomics that make it super comfortable and durable with ample space to store enough bare necessities to survive for a good 3 days. I’ve been doing long rucks with both these packs and they have performed really well, I just don’t see a viable option of carrying both at the same time.

    I have your answer. It is called the Eberlestock skycrane 2. It is a large hybrid framed ruck capable of 96+ hours of operation. It has a Eberle stock little brother pack complete with separate high quality shoulder straps built into the ruck. You can view a video of it on http://www.eberlestock.com. it also has a quick details h go bag on top of the ruck that would be good for about 24 hours, leaving you two choices of go bag designs.

    You simply inventory your packing list and pack your must have items in the little brother and you’re extended operation items in the rest of the pack, when shtf you down the ruck and unzip two zippers which completes your transition from ruck to assault pack and keep on fighting.

    I’ve had multiple Eberlestock packs and they are fantastic with the skycrane 2 being my favorite, it also held up well on my last afghan deployment. Hope this helps

    #42037
    Profile photo of JohnnyMac
    JohnnyMac
    Participant

    I received my Predator 30 today. Initial impressions are quite good, even more so with the sub $100 price tag. Here is a stream of consciousness review.

    It’s a perfect day pack size. The stitching and fabric are quality. The webbing is definitely set up for flexibility with ice axe loops, compression straps that go much wider than the pack and two loops on the sides at the bottom that could be pretty useful for slipping long thin objects into. The shock cord on top is great for temporarily stowing a rain jacket or something. The side pockets are really small, like pair of gloves or watch cap, you aren’t going to fit a nalgene in them. There is a clip on the left shoulder strap that’s presumably to hold a hydration hose, which is a very nice touch that I haven’t seen elsewhere. The lid pocket is a nice size and I always find myself loving them in practical use. The back panel has substantial cushioning in case you’re stuck carrying a hard heavy object with a mesh surface to help mitigate heat. The plastic hardwear is average, not cheap and not beefy, somewhere in between. The hip belt is a little more substantial than you would see on an assault pack but still on the small side. For our purposes, I’d be cool if it was removable.

    There are only two opportunities for improvement that I can see, and luckily one of them is easily corrected. I think considering there could be times that the pack could see a heavy load, beyond what it was intended for, a stiffer framesheet is warranted. Maybe I’m just spoiled by my GoRuck Rucker at the moment. Anyway, I’ll be picking up some hdpe sheet to try giving it some extra backbone. My only other gripe is there isn’t a hang tab to hold a hydration bladder in the hydration pocket.

    For the money, this pack can’t be beat, period. It’s a perfect combo of lightweight, robustness and size with a design that makes it highly adaptable.

    #42046
    Profile photo of Brian from Georgia
    Brian from Georgia
    Participant

    My only other gripe is there isn’t a hang tab to hold a hydration bladder in the hydration pocket.

    I’ve had good luck suspending bladders with adhesive backed Velcro. It seems to stick to pack fabric and the bladder pretty well. You can find it at hardware stores.

    3-4 Aug 2013 CRCD, 2-6 Aug 2014 CRCD/Patrol, 30 Sep 2016 Run n Gun, 1-2 Oct 2016 FoF, 3-4 March 2018 DCH alumni
    Team Coyote

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