February 23, 2015 at 12:53 pm #14661
Can anyone speak to the MOD short backed Bergen? It looks like it might be a very good solution.March 4, 2015 at 11:27 am #14925AnonymousInactive
I’ve used the long-back. The frustrating thing is that here in the States, it’s hard to get a short-back bergen. I don’t know of any place that sells them. The businesses that sell MOD bergens don’t know if they’re long or short. In my experience, they’re all long-backs.
Here’s a review I did.March 6, 2015 at 9:19 pm #15012
I purchased a half dozen of these 3 day packs from LA Police Gear.
Six Coyote – six OD Green all total.
Have not had one single problem with them. Can’t go wrong for 30 bucks. There is an older thread somewhere, but if you want to get these go and do it. Buy better if you can afford it. But I like these and we use them every day. Loaded them up with other Molle kit. We are very pleased with these packs.
ZUKE~March 6, 2015 at 10:34 pm #15013Mike HParticipant
I agree Zuke…if it works for you it’s worth the insavings. Just put together my summer patrol pack and it’s one I use for training. Coyote brown. Was in 30-40 buck range at Wal-Mart. Recent hip ailment has me rethinking my loadout(next week I’ll be 54 w/o old injuries).
I cut down a foam camp pad to 48 x 20 and my summer bag consists of a poncho liner inside a gortex bivy. Couple of stripped Mres,spare canteen,change of underclothes & socks, MVT shield with tent pegs/cord, lined raincoat, and a watch cap to sleep in. Got it right at 20 lbs. I plan to add my retool and 90 rods ammo on strippers. That’s it.
I’ll try to post photo later.
"These are not men, but devils" --Colonel Francisco de Paula-Milan, Mexican Army, Camerone 30 April 1863March 7, 2015 at 12:02 am #15015ffhounddogParticipant
I have a cfp-90 sitting in my shed if anyone in NOVA needs one.
Support Side. Not flattering but better than weak side.March 7, 2015 at 7:12 am #15019
We are experimenting with one of the first LA PG 3 day Coyote packs. My newest troop believes he can do an expedient camo job with a few large permanent Magic Markers. Black, Brown, and Green. Likely to be quicker than a quality paint job. Creative Battlefield Expediency.
I assume he understands the “Permanent” part.
Z~March 9, 2015 at 1:37 pm #15075Mike HParticipant
Here’s a photo of my summer patrol pack…reflectors are for “run over” protection during training….
Again I have a cut down foam pad(earth tone), poncho liner inside gortex bivy, MVT shield w/ pegs,poles,cordage, lined raincoat, change of underclothes & socks, hnd sanitizer and wipes, 2 stripped down MREs, small boo boo kit, and watch cap. Still need to add my etool, small ammo cache, and spare canteen.
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"These are not men, but devils" --Colonel Francisco de Paula-Milan, Mexican Army, Camerone 30 April 1863April 2, 2015 at 11:30 pm #16050
Attached is pictures of my small patrol pack (TacTailor/MSM), mid size ruck with thermal shield attached (Eberlestock X2), and the stand alone camelback thrown in.
Depending on mission, one of these will be worn; the patrol back can attach to the Eberlestock. One picture is proof of rucking/hiking; sweat salt on the straps. :)
Attachments:You must be logged in to view attached files.May 29, 2015 at 7:52 am #17940
Ok here the question What is a good pack/ruck that can be worn while wearing a battlebelt ?
I was thinking about the one that Bill472 has but don’t know the name of it. I like the Gunslinger2 by Eberlestock or the Voodoo Praetorian Rifle Pack I like the ideal that I would be able to carry another rifle while wearing the pack/ruck. Reason is that if needed I can carry my .308 LR. I welcome all inputs thanks in advance.
Alumni living in N.E Fla. for now. Going to retire in Iowa on the farm some day soon.June 1, 2015 at 5:42 pm #18029AnonymousInactive
Set up a DevilCat pack. Basically, it’s a Hellcat (ALICE Frame, MOLLE Straps, MOLLE waist belt) but with a FILBE pack instead of an ALICE pack.
If you want a bit more tactical ruck, just get the full FILBE. You can stick an AR in the side pocket/channel.
(Disclaimer: this image is not mine)
For a patrol pack, you can use the FILBE assault bag (you can put sustainment pouches on the sides to increase capacity.
I’ve got both for sale, if you’re interested.June 2, 2015 at 8:42 am #18045
Thanks for the reply. Can the Devilcat be worn with web gear ?
Alumni living in N.E Fla. for now. Going to retire in Iowa on the farm some day soon.June 3, 2015 at 3:36 pm #18102AnonymousInactive
Yes it can. I wear mine overtop of a British Tactical 3-row MOLLE Hippo belt.June 4, 2015 at 8:23 am #18130PinkyParticipant
EDIT – I meant to reply to someone’s earlier question about ILBE’s, sorry…
I have a pair of the older marpat ILBE’s, they are great packs with a few drawbacks…no internal compartments (one big open space) and yes, they ride low (not sure vs. Alice). YMMV on this one…they moved to the new packs b/c the “old” one was not comfortable on top of body armor. I have done many decently long (multi-day, 20+ miles per) hikes and had no issues with the OLBE really loaded up (too much stuff, really testing the pack and my fitness). But, I did not have on armor. I took Max’s CP class and lugged it around with armor on without any issues, but I would not call that a true “extended use” test.
In summary, I’d recommend, but your experience may differ. You can pick them up pretty cheap now from milsurp places in new/nearly new condition for well under $100.
"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms."
-- Thomas JeffersonJune 7, 2015 at 3:32 pm #18223AnonymousInactive
I’ve used the ILBE and while it’s a great hiking bag, it doesn’t allow you to use a belt-and-suspender rig in conjunction. If you run a chest rig, that might not be such a big deal.
Here are a few pictures of me with my DevilCat. The belt rig is a British Tactical MOLLE 3-row hippo belt. On top of the DevilCat, I have clipped the FILBE assault pack. It all gets pretty damn heavy.
A side note: I ended up replacing the MOLLE belt with an old ALICE kidney belt. This particular one has dual roll pin buckles on the sides, allowing the user to tighten by pulling forward. Interestingly, the FILBE belt tightens by pulling forward as well.June 8, 2015 at 7:18 am #18244
Thanks for all the info I picked up a used Alice pack this weekend I am going to the CTT&CP this month and I am going to see what others are using and go for there. I have been a pack whore in the past and the OIC has put her foot down to stop buy buying packs and stuff so I have to really make sure to get the right one.
I do like the DevilCat look and it a big pack.
Alumni living in N.E Fla. for now. Going to retire in Iowa on the farm some day soon.June 8, 2015 at 12:40 pm #18252AnonymousInactive
Some shots of the FILBE Assault Pack on the belt gear. It can be worn in conjunction with a bed roll (poncho and liner rolled up and placed on top of webbing in back).July 3, 2015 at 5:12 pm #18915MM1Participant
for folks looking to improve the (large)ALICE pack suspension issues, I’d say take a look at the Mystery Ranch NICE frame. I took a Blackhawk SOF enhanced ALICE and hooked the two together. Couldn’t be happier. Mystery Ranch kills you on price, but if you keep an eye out on eBay for the frame alone, you will not regret it. Even with the hip belt undone over my battle belt, the suspension is light years better than the old metal frames. Just my two bits.July 7, 2015 at 11:31 am #18999AnonymousInactive
Holy crap, those things are expensive. Don’t get me wrong, they look incredible (make me think you could turn the ALICE into a Bergen, of some sort). However, the thought of paying $300 for one makes me shudder.
Resolved: I’m going to build my own damn frame and make my DevilCat into something like an internal-framed PLCE Bergen.
Until I complete the project, though, I would suggest this as a somewhat cheaper alternative to a traditional ALICE frame:
1606 frame from Lee Surplus OutletJuly 7, 2015 at 10:42 pm #19010AnonymousInactive
54GR – thanks! I note your link had the 1606 at US$34.95 and also has the Gen 4 MOLLE II frames (looks like the 1603) for US$12.95.
You prompted me to finally make this post I thought about doing a while ago. I was looking into frame options other than the Alice – I have one in “The Room of Stuff” – but don’t like it. My days in the Australian green machine long ago involved one patrol pack option for grunts – the “Austpack” AKA “‘Nam Pack” (~40 litre) – which I still have. See here for more info. Webbingbabel is a good reference site for all kinds of webbing and pack information.
Anyway my search was along the lines of a load carriage platform that could also be used for porting larger, awkward stores (eg a Jerry Can of fuel/water). In a pinch I could use the Alice frame and shelf I have but was looking for better alternative frame options.
This led me to look at Down East Inc which manufactures the 1603 , 1606, 1609 frames, harnesses and accessories (and direct sells from their store albeit at a shade more than the eBay seller you linked). It is a handy catalogue for reference:
1. DEI 1603 MOLLE Large Frame – Dimensions: 22.5″x15.5″ Weight:2.2 lbs – “Stable while supporting loads of up to 200 lbs”
2. DEI 1606 Airborne Assault Frame – Dimensions: 20″x15.5″ Weight:1.75 lb – “Supports loads over 200 lbs”
3. DEI 1609 MOLLE Medium Frame – Dimensions: 18.75″x15″ Weight: 1 lb. – “Selected for the Army’s MOLLE Medium pack” … “designed to bridge the gap between heavy duty external frames and light duty stays and frame sheets”
Another promising option I looked at (but the shipping cost to Australia is a killer) is the Canadian packboard frame they designed for porting the ERYX anti-tank missile system which had a neat channel and screw method for adjusting the harness and waistbelt for body size/back length (more details here).
These pop up from time to time on FleaBay – currently unassembled harness and frame sets are listed at US$49.00.
He also has the frames alone for US$14.99.
If anyone gets an ERYX frame/harness then please give feedback as it did seem like a very robust and flexible alternative to the Alice frame.July 20, 2015 at 4:36 pm #19266AnonymousInactive
If you want a British N.I. Patrol Pack, Keepshooting.com has them for $40October 3, 2015 at 6:58 pm #21234shooterParticipant
I was primarily using the ATS RAID II before, which is not a bad pack at all! Just got a Karrimor SF Predator Patrol 45L and overall I think it is more user friendly and probably will last longer. The ATS has some features I like better, like the integral side pouches, thinner/flatter shoulder straps, and frame sheet with aluminum stay that can be bent to fit your back…
The Karrimor’s padded back with the mesh is much more comfortable overall, but I am probably going to experiment with stuffing a piece of an old sleeping pad in the waist belt stowage slot for a little more lumbar support. Also, the top loading bag design of the Karrimor has no zipper to worry about blowing out. It has a really good arrangement of compression straps, so you can load it up with a LOT more stuff than you’d guess, or scrunch it down into a very small/flat daypack. This is one of the biggest selling points for me, since most packs I’ve tried are either too big or too small. Has the zippers for adding the Karrimor side pouches (which I’m not crazy about), plus molle webbing for adding pouches pretty much anyplace you’d want to.
Anyway, it’s not perfect, but it it is the best and most versatile mid-sized ruck I’ve tried.
Not sure I’m ready to sell my Mystery Ranch SATL yet, but that (for me) is way overkill for 90% of the uses I’ve ever had for a ruck.
Oh yeah – I don’t know what the official measurements for “short back” vs “long back” UK bergens is, but this Karrimor will easily ride over a battle belt on my frame. I’m 5’9″, so a lot of packs I’ve used ride too low on my back. I’d guess this Karrimor qualifies as “short back”.
I still have a few more tweaks to do on the setup, but I’ll post pics and maybe do a review when I get some more mileage on it.
We are all victims of our perspective.October 8, 2015 at 8:32 am #21434
I’ve considered using the DEI 1609 frame and designing a 3 day + patrol pack. I can’t really fathom needing a full-size ruck; I feel a medium would be far better suited to my needs and potential application. Anyone with knowledge on pack design and or manufacture (Stinger/AMHTactical, I’m looking at you) contact me. I have the idea, just not the capability. Think along the lines of the BFM, but a little more “mission specific”.April 24, 2016 at 6:02 pm #26522AnonymousInactive
After watching Bergmann youtube video about about the PLCE bergen he is using, I decided to acquire one. It is a stellar rucksack and it’s very comfortable.April 24, 2016 at 6:39 pm #26523AnonymousInactive
able, where did you get it from?
BergmannApril 25, 2016 at 7:33 am #26533AnonymousInactive
Firestorm kit.May 22, 2016 at 10:37 am #27378ffhounddogParticipant
Just an FYI, Kryptek Highlander Grey Ghost gear Medium Mountain Ruck is 50 percent off. I decided to pick one up since I needed another decent Ruck to bo with my PLCE45. I have a Large Alice and a Tactical Tailor Malice 3 but in super awesome UCP but movement I want something a tad smaller.
Support Side. Not flattering but better than weak side.June 10, 2016 at 9:46 pm #27855
Hey Ivarr. You probably have posted it somewhere but I can’t find it….how do you load up your PLCE battle belt? What do you put in it?
I saw the video on the PLCE ruckJune 10, 2016 at 9:57 pm #27857AnonymousInactive
Its a survival rig, its not focused on fighting..
base line is at the end of this..
IvarrJune 11, 2016 at 7:25 am #27861riflemanivParticipant
My modernized medium alice. I have it on a DE 1606ac frame with molle II suspension. I also replaced the metal buckles with plastic side release buckles. I also run a large alice on this frame. I couldn’t get the pics to post properly so here is the link.
CTT1504, NODF 1504, CP 1610June 11, 2016 at 9:48 am #27865DiznNCParticipant
I have done some rucking this year so I’ll share some thoughts here. Someone asked about the Short Back Bergen. I’m kinda on the bubble, in that I can really use either one. It depends on how you rig a belt kit and where the back pouches sit in relation to the rucksack. In general if you’re about 5’10” or shorter, the short back will work for you. If you are 5″10″ or taller, the long back will work for you. It’s all about where the shoulder strap attachment point is, in relation to the distance to the waist belt. Or another way of saying it is your lumbar measurement.
Lots of different rucksacks out there, lots of different prices too. I love Mystery Ranch, and the other Gucci brands, but fuck me, I’m not paying that for a ruck anymore. If you keep your eyes open, you can find short and long back Bergens on ebay. Even with shipping from the UK, you are still way ahead.
I think the new issue MTP Bergens are some of the best rucks you will find on the market today, at a pretty good price-point to boot.
The trick is to integrate a ruck with a belt kit (and/or chest rig), so I also recommend Brit issue pouches, because they sit flush with the top of the belt, creating a nice shelf for your ruck. In fact, if I’m running a belt kit, I remove the ruck hip belt, and just use the belt kit.
This is where the Brits have always been light-years ahead of us. Their ruck and belt kit have always integrated so much better than our stuff for dismounted patrolling. So in our case, I think this is an important consideration.
We here at MVT Labs (!) are experimenting with all manner of rucks and belt kit to see if we can come up with an optimum load out. Stay tuned!
CTT 1505, NODF 1505, CP 1503, LN 1, RC II, Rifleman
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