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Testing the Shot Stop Level III Special Threat Plate with Green Tip / M855

Home Forums The Armory – Gear and Equipment Body Armor and Protective Equipment Testing the Shot Stop Level III Special Threat Plate with Green Tip / M855

This topic contains 32 replies, has 13 voices, and was last updated by Profile photo of JohnnyMac JohnnyMac 5 months, 1 week ago.

Viewing 30 posts - 1 through 30 (of 33 total)
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  • #61815
    Profile photo of Max Velocity
    Max
    Keymaster

    This is the company I was alluding to before, but didn’t want to say anything until I had seen their product.

    #61816
    Profile photo of Joe (G.W.N.S.)
    Joe (G.W.N.S.)
    Moderator

    Here is their product comparison chart.

    Duritium III+GT – 10″x12″x.55″ – Multi-Curve, SAPI/ESAPI Cut (SE) $420 – 8″x10″x.55″ – $290

    Duritium III+GT – 10″x12″x.55″ – Multi-Curve, Shooters Cut (SH) $380 – 8″x10″x.55″ – $290

    Note: Prices from one of several vendors.

    #61817
    Profile photo of Hessian
    Hessian
    Participant

    Poor Billy.

    Really enjoy the AR 500 armor comment for ‘multi’ hit.. hah.

    It appears that they offer level IV plates that weight 5.5lbs.

    I was going to be pulling the trigger on the DKX plates and now I see these. Any idea of JRH will be supplying these? Max would you recommend these plates over DKX?

    #61819
    Profile photo of Joe (G.W.N.S.)
    Joe (G.W.N.S.)
    Moderator

    Information on their Level IV

    Duritium IV+HS – Body Plates $365.00

    Description

    A special ultra-thin, light weight multi-hit protection option for Armor Piercing protection.

    SAPI CUT 10″ X 12″ X .9″ ONLY

    CUT OPTIONS: SAPI/ESAPI Cut (SE)
    CURVATURE: Single curve
    CONFIGURATION: Stand-Alone, Multi-Hit
    AERIAL DENSITY (WEIGHT): 5.5 lbs.
    THICKNESS: 0.9″ ± 0.125” (22.8 mm ± 3.17 mm)
    TYPE OF MATERIALS: Alloy / Composite
    TYPE OF PROTECTIVE COVER: Polyurea
    SPECIAL THREAT TESTING: 7.62 x 63mm APM2*

    *Special Threat Testing conducted in accordance with an abbreviated and modified NIJ Standard 0101.06 and ShotStop Advanced Armor Testing Protocol.

    5 YEAR WARRANTY

    MADE IN THE USA

    #61820
    Profile photo of Submariner
    Submariner
    Participant

    Are these marketed as stand alone plates? At what point does back face deformation necessitate kevlar plate backers?

    #61821
    Profile photo of Joe (G.W.N.S.)
    Joe (G.W.N.S.)
    Moderator

    Are these marketed as stand alone plates?

    According to their Product Spec Sheets for the III+ and IV. Haven’t looked at other products.

    At what point does back face deformation necessitate kevlar plate backers?

    Try looking at NIJ standards for a recommendation.

    #61854
    Profile photo of Submariner
    Submariner
    Participant
    #61855
    Profile photo of Max Velocity
    Max
    Keymaster

    I was going to be pulling the trigger on the DKX plates and now I see these.

    I have the DKX plates and I have not had the opportunity to shoot them. I think that the Shot Stop plates will be getting better and coming down in weight. They are thinner than the DKX. They are not a dyneema / ceramic composite. The dyneema cannot be left in vehicles. The ceramic is vulnerable to cracking, although the DKX plates do pass the latest NIJ slam test.

    The Duritium is interesting. You saw the way it is made in the video. Te dust you saw was apparently alloy that is used instead of the ceramic, and will not crack. So the Duritium construction is really strong and not vulnerable to heat. It is thinner.

    Ceramic also turns to dust when it gets hit. This is what happens to all ceramic type plates when hit. It is a little disturbing to see a plate shot to destruction – it is always grist to the mill of the foolish steel fans.

    As to only stopping 5 rounds, those rounds were really close and it only went through on the 6th because the alloy had already been dispersed on previous shots. The plate could have taken multiple more hits if they were not that close, but plates will not take that many hits if they are tightly grouped shots. In fact, it is a technique to basically mag dump with a tight shot group a guy wearing plates, in order to punch through it. In reality, when guys get hit they go down. They will take maybe one or two hits and go down. This armor is more than sufficient for that. The multi-hit steel comments are just fantasy.

    #61856
    Profile photo of Max Velocity
    Max
    Keymaster

    JUst added on YouTUbe:

    A note on steel, just because I know there will be comments about multiple hits etc. I do not use steel, and never will. I have a sat for working out, that is all. Why do I not use steel:
    1) Steel is heavy. Some will quote that steel has come down in weight, but a big issue for steel is stopping special threats such as the M855 green tip and even more worryingly for steel, M193. These are the special threats that the plate tested in this video will defeat. In fact, the worst round for steel is M193 because it is so high velocity, and will punch through the cheaper and lighter steel plates.
    2) Steel suffers from spalling and ricochet.
    3) Steel is heavy, and in a time when most people suffer form lack of sufficient physical fitness, the last thing they want to do is weight themselves down with heavy steel. They are more likely to either get hit due to moving slow and taking shortcuts, or just not bother wearing the steel and be devoid of protection. The best idea is to invest in the best protection light body armor, which will protect you and not cause an extreme weight penalty, and thus be more comfortable and more likely to be worn.
    4) This multi-hit thing is a myth. You will not be standing there for multiple hits. Mostly on deployment when guys get hit (in ceramic military plates) they will take one or two hits and go down / to cover. There is still a lot of protective space available on a non-steel plate. And you can have a spare per group in case anyone does take a hit and needs a replacement.
    5) The duritium Shot Stop plates in the video do not suffer from cracking of dropped or heat if left in a vehicle, like dyneema / ceramic composite or ceramic plates do. They are extremely strong and durable.
    6) You cannot navigate / use a compass in steel plates!
    7) In the winter, steel plates will freeze up super cold and could even cause you hypothermia!
    8) Be sensible, get with the technology, and go for a good non-steel plate such as the Shot Stop plates featured.

    #61859
    Profile photo of Max Velocity
    Max
    Keymaster

    NIJ apparently has a 44 mm standard. That would still leave a mark.

    What’s your point? These are standalone plates and are an insurance policy to NOT DIE. Yep, it’s gonna bring a tear to your eye. If you take more than 2 rounds before going to cover / falling down into cover, let me know.

    There needs to be more perspective about ballistic plates. Cue the idiots about steel being ‘multi-hit.’

    #61860
    Profile photo of Joe (G.W.N.S.)
    Joe (G.W.N.S.)
    Moderator

    This multi-hit thing is a myth.

    I thought the multi-hit was more about the prepper teotwawki as a multi-generational event.

    Where your greatgrandson is going through training bragging about the ding in his plate to the other kids and how ol’grampa Max took a round defending the village back in year one AE(AfterEvent)! ;-)

    Maybe I am wrong! B-)

    #61862
    Profile photo of Joe (G.W.N.S.)
    Joe (G.W.N.S.)
    Moderator

    Here you go! ;-)

    YouTube commenter:

    im after long term integrity over the course of who knows how long.

    …and…

    Weight really isnt a concern of mine in a static defense situation. I will never be patrolling long diatances with any armor so yeah… ill take the weight and gain the longevity. You act like its another hundred lbs …. my plate carrier weighs 20lbs slick… its not a big deal…

    See its “no big deal! ”

    There are a lot of people that truly believe this! :unsure:

    What are the odds that they will need that “longevity?”

    #61863
    Profile photo of wheelsee
    wheelsee
    Participant

    YouTube commenter:

    Weight really isnt a concern of mine in a static defense situation. I will never be patrolling long diatances with any armor so yeah… ill take the weight and gain the longevity. You act like its another hundred lbs …. my plate carrier weighs 20lbs slick… its not a big deal…

    What are the odds that they will need that “longevity?”

    Obviously hasn’t been to a CQB, FonF class. Primary take-away for me was – static=dead……but YMMV B-) B-)

    Which is heavier - a soldier's pack or a slave's chains? Napoleon

    Strength, Honor. Maximus (Gladiator)

    If you tolerate evil, you yourself are evil.
    Col Hugo Martinez, Commander Search Bloc

    William, in The Republic - CRS/CTT 2017, HEAT 2/CQB/FonF 2018, DCH 2018

    #61875
    Profile photo of Joe (G.W.N.S.)
    Joe (G.W.N.S.)
    Moderator

    Max in this case didn’t directly challenge AR550 fan, but continued to put out good information.

    It didn’t hurt that another armor maker (AR550) also commented professionally, while not disputing Shot Stop. In fact praised it, but also gave a plug for his own, based on there being “better” steel plates.

    This works since in reality these are really two different markets with a little overlap.

    The one commenter seems to have realized he overstepped emotionally, basically blaming it on a bad day.

    The current appearance is one of learning for everyone.

    It’s a balancing act, to delete or not in this case.

    Doesn’t always work, but it can! B-)

    #61921
    Profile photo of Keeper aka "Sun Shine"
    Keeper
    Participant

    Great Video.
    A real realist test on plates’

    very cool !
    thanks
    Keeper

    Alumni living in N.E Fla. for now. Going to retire in Iowa on the farm some day soon.

    #61965
    Profile photo of Robert
    Robert
    Participant

    Don’t believe the hype about steel being the only thing that takes “multi hits.”

    Hell I shot the hell out of a military ESAPI plate at 15 yards with an M1A and AK, six rounds IIRC, not a one went through, but you seriously would have felt that that close.

    We’ve been talking with these folks on and off also, and will likely start carrying them also.

    www.jrhenterprises.com
    RMP, TC3, NODF, CRCD 6/14, CP 9/14. NODF, Land Nav, 6/15. Rifleman Challenge 9/15- Vanguard. FOFtactics 3/16, 10/16, 11/16, 6/17,11/17 CTT, 6/15, 11/16, , LRMC-1 9/17 GA Mobile CTT and DA 10/16, GA mobile DCH 3/18, HEAT1 3/18 Alum weekend 8/18, Opfor CLC 10/18, DA 11/18 CQBC 12/18

    #61996
    Profile photo of Dave37
    dave37
    Participant

    Here is some more testing of the same plate. He hits it withM855A1 and it survives.

    Shot Stop plate test

    Texas CTT/Mobility 2017, Missouri 1 Day CQB 2017, Texas HEAT 2 2018

    #62058
    Profile photo of Boots
    Strider
    Participant

    Does anyone know how these fare against M193? I see its success against M855 but I’m curious as to whether they’re rated for the zippier rounds – I suspect that the duritium would suffer from the same weakness to velocity that steel does, and I can’t find any info on whether 193 was used in testing.

    I also was looking at the DKX M7 plates to compare and I can’t confirm that they are rated to stop m193 either. I looked up the NIJ 0101.06, which both the Duritium and DKX plates used as a standard, and skimmed it (so I might have missed something) but it didn’t look like 193 was on the list. Perhaps someone a little more familiar with NIJ testing can chime in?

    "He is not a 'happy medium' or compromise between meekness and ferocity; he is fierce to the 'nth, and he is meek to the 'nth" ~C. S. Lewis

    #62060
    Profile photo of Max Velocity
    Max
    Keymaster

    Holy balls Strider! Yes they do stop M193. I believe the video linked above by Dave37 covers it (and is a better video than the one I did).

    Also, M193 is kryptonite against steel. Not your standsrd dyneema (which these are not). It’s a reversed relationship: 193 kills steel, M855 kills non-steel.

    So your fears are unfounded.

    #62061
    Profile photo of Max Velocity
    Max
    Keymaster

    Also, as guy in video above says, NIJ level III is unhelpful, and only rates to stop M80 ball. Hence these plates being designated ‘special threat.’

    #62064
    Profile photo of Boots
    Strider
    Participant

    No fears Max :) I’ve just learned not to assume. I got off the armor train after I bought ceramics almost a decade ago, and am just getting back up to speed. I’m behind the curve and I know it.

    Edit: I also am unable to open the video linked above for some reason – I can watch yours but I can’t follow the link posted a few comments down for some reason.

    "He is not a 'happy medium' or compromise between meekness and ferocity; he is fierce to the 'nth, and he is meek to the 'nth" ~C. S. Lewis

    #62065
    Profile photo of Joe (G.W.N.S.)
    Joe (G.W.N.S.)
    Moderator

    unable to open the video linked

    See if this works.

    #62066
    Profile photo of Boots
    Strider
    Participant

    Yep, that did it. Thanks!

    "He is not a 'happy medium' or compromise between meekness and ferocity; he is fierce to the 'nth, and he is meek to the 'nth" ~C. S. Lewis

    #62090
    Profile photo of Robert
    Robert
    Participant

    Typically you see the III+ mentioned as “Level III “special threat tested.” That being M855, 7.62×39 AP, etc. You can look up the NIJ certs on that also.

    www.jrhenterprises.com
    RMP, TC3, NODF, CRCD 6/14, CP 9/14. NODF, Land Nav, 6/15. Rifleman Challenge 9/15- Vanguard. FOFtactics 3/16, 10/16, 11/16, 6/17,11/17 CTT, 6/15, 11/16, , LRMC-1 9/17 GA Mobile CTT and DA 10/16, GA mobile DCH 3/18, HEAT1 3/18 Alum weekend 8/18, Opfor CLC 10/18, DA 11/18 CQBC 12/18

    #62293
    Profile photo of Daniel
    Daniel
    Participant

    This has got me to wondering how Green Tip tends to react when hitting a magazine. I realize an empty polymer is different from one with rounds in it, which is different from an empty steel magazine, which is different from a full steel mag. Are there any rules of thumb as to what usually happens when the mags on your chest give the first clue yer under attack?

    #62294
    Profile photo of Joe (G.W.N.S.)
    Joe (G.W.N.S.)
    Moderator

    Daniel I am not sure what your asking.

    Any bullet will zip right through your magazines.

    Are there any rules of thumb as to what usually happens when the mags on your chest give the first clue yer under attack?

    No, there will be plenty of more pressing sensory input influencing your reactions at that point.

    #62295
    Profile photo of Daniel
    Daniel
    Participant

    Thanks Joe. So magazines offer no help if hit before the armor.

    #62296
    Profile photo of Joe (G.W.N.S.)
    Joe (G.W.N.S.)
    Moderator

    …offer no help…

    One in a million maybe, but nothing to count on.

    #62304
    Profile photo of Robert
    Robert
    Participant

    …offer no help…

    One in a million maybe, but nothing to count on.

    I want to say I remember hearing some story a long, long time ago in a galaxy far, far away… that someone shot a VC one time in his chest rig and the two stacked AK mags stopped the bullet. Sounded like BS to me at age 15, still sounds like BS to me. But we did pick up a metal AK mag on the tac ranges a few months ago that had a bullet through it. Cleaned the rust off, painted it and it works great still- for loading rounds not for hillbilly armor.

    www.jrhenterprises.com
    RMP, TC3, NODF, CRCD 6/14, CP 9/14. NODF, Land Nav, 6/15. Rifleman Challenge 9/15- Vanguard. FOFtactics 3/16, 10/16, 11/16, 6/17,11/17 CTT, 6/15, 11/16, , LRMC-1 9/17 GA Mobile CTT and DA 10/16, GA mobile DCH 3/18, HEAT1 3/18 Alum weekend 8/18, Opfor CLC 10/18, DA 11/18 CQBC 12/18

    #62398
    Profile photo of Daniel
    Daniel
    Participant

    “Hillbilly armor” – I love that, Robert.

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