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This Forum, Your Group, Your CUTT

Home Forums Tactics & Leadership Teamwork & Leadership This Forum, Your Group, Your CUTT

This topic contains 105 replies, has 31 voices, and was last updated by Profile photo of FreedomOak FreedomOak 3 months ago.

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  • #47349
    Profile photo of Max Velocity
    Max
    Keymaster

    If you have been around a while, you will now that MVT was started to ‘keep good folks alive.’ A perennial frustration of all of you here is that you are often individuals. You do not have a CUTT. You may (some of you) occasionally train with other alumni, but you are probably too dispersed for that to matter if the hammer drops.

    That needs to change.

    I am all in favor of training, preparedness, and networking. Thus, what I am interested in is leveraging the forum for the development of team/group. I want to see the active development of the CUTT, so that alumni are no longer individuals on their own. This needs to be tied to training. MVT as a tactical training business has an ulterior group training purpose, because the reality is that the group will keep folks alive.

    Thus, MVT is only really interested in the alumni and forum members (who will hopefully mostly become alumni). Those of you here now and those of you who will be alumni in the future. Trained / training alumni. The forum also includes those who are not training but may be auxiliary / support to groups. What I want to see is the expansion of forum membership and increased new blood for training. I want to see expansion and real utility to the networking section of the forum.

    There is a whole bunch of shitty psychology out there. There was the wailing and gnashing of teeth over the forum when it went to the $25 per annum subscription. That was the best and worst thing that ever happened to this forum. It has seriously cut down on stupidity and created a far more rational environment. It has cut away all those entitlement prepper types who were outraged that I wanted to charge them $25 to be here, and left in a huff. But it is SMALL and new members come slowly.

    What I want to see is far less of the individuals out there on your own. I want to see active measures to recruit for the forum and for training. The more cynical will simply see that as a business strategy, but that is what MVT is here for, and increasing alumni numbers will keep MVT here and strong for the benefit of all. We are not a charity and have to run as a business.

    I long ago went away from any ideas of being a national membership organization. We do not want to be Oathkeepers or any of those other ‘patriot’ group out there. But what MVT wants to do is grow the forum membership, the number of trained people, and thus grow a nationwide network of alumni who are able to network and form your own CUTT’s.

    Some may not train, but will be auxiliary. The one common factor should be the forum. It costs $25. Suck it up for the value and resources that it provides. If someone thinks they can get all this for free on the internet, and that $25 is not worth the investment, then they are not worth it themselves with that attitude.

    If we need to revamp the regional sections to allow people to find other members better, let me know. Give me feedback.

    We should make efforts to no longer be scattered individuals. I know that for many of you, that is the struggle. But how about selling the virtues of the forum, and as soon as they join, it will help to reduce the levels of YDKWYDK. There is so much crap out there in the ‘tactical’ world, and MVT is beacon of light in the darkness. We are fighting a whole bunch of psychology in a bid to wake people up.

    Since I ceased being active on the ‘political’ side, MVT seems to have far less engagement. We have cut away the chaff of the political non-training types. I do not want to be political, I simply want to continue to be a center of excellence for tactical training and teamwork. We are no longer involved with WRSA, which is an excellent thing. I really have no idea any more what the reach of MVT is, but you should realize that what we do is actively resisted in many areas of the BS flat range tacticool crowd – the ‘industry’ does not like the excellence in SUT and teamwork that we provide, preferring to sell fools gold to people because it is easy and sells gear / firearms. It is simply an industry for the extraction of cash from the customer.

    So what can we, what can YOU, do to get the word out and expand membership of the forum? So many times I get guys who book classes, like I just had a rush recently to book November CTT with October full, and guys are asking me questions that they just need to get on the forum to find out about. $25. wow.

    So the aim here is to expand networking, use the forum as the hub, with the intent of getting more people properly tactically trained and allow the creation of to your own CUTT in you area. Imagine actually having a CUTT available for 16 guys, able to roll out some real tactics and teamwork, able to implement tactics such as the MSG?

    Many of the groups that I know through training, even though they are ‘groups,’ seriously sufferer from a lack of personnel. Too many chiefs and no Indians. The way to solve this is to get people in through MVT classes, where you can meet and assess them. Those people should not be all the old guys, but need to be infused with younger fitter individuals.

    I am less and less pushing my campaigns on social media such as Facebook and Instagram. Why? I no longer bother to repost links from the blog etc. Why? Because I am dealing with people with the attention span of a gnat. It makes no effect. They may look at a photo and move on. Instagram is the zone of cool tacticool guys where kids can make stupid comments and hero worship. MVT has made no real inroads there.

    So what can you / we do to recruit and spread interest? To get people to realize the value of what we do at MVT, the value of forum membership to a rational learning experience?

    Unless we can make a change from scattered alumni individuals to the ability to form a CUTT in your area, we will all die individually. If you are here and not alumni, why? What are the psychological blocks to you attending training? The basic thing to do is attend training, it is absolutely vital. Yes, we have to change many attitudes that are sickeningly prevalent. Attitudes to PT, firearms, gear, tactical philosophies, dumb ass shit that people bring in from shooting rather than combat / tactical experience. There is a lot to work on and a lot to change.

    People think that MVT is a place for crazed preppers / survivalists? What is the impression there? You will not find a more professional training organization. If you want points to tell people tell them that we train active duty Special Forces ODAs from 3rd Group in Fort Bragg. We have two teams coming in the fall. If you want people to understand the quality available, and that MVT is not a fantasy tactical band camp, tell then that the ODAs run the same classes as civilian, just dovetailed into UTM missions (similar to the CLC). They understand the value of working up through the basics to more advanced skills.

    As part of my reading into zeroing techniques after the recent post on the 100 meter zero, I saw all sorts of retarded stuff about not needing to zero beyond 10 yard because the only place they will use their weapon is in the house in home defense. There is so much normalcy crap out there where people do not understand that they lack a warrior mindset and the ability to defend themselves and their family in these most uncertain of times. Hence, the uphill struggle. But then there are so many more who think that pew pew on the flat range is adequate ‘tactical training.’ Then there are preppers who think that the hokey ‘maneuvers’ they do in their back 40 are sufficient training. Yes, it is an uphill struggle.

    So what is the cause of MVT? To keep the good folks alive. By spreading the word and the training on real SUT and allowing alumni a resource to create CUTT’s in your own areas.

    As I finish this up, it occurs to me that putting on the Force on Force Team tactics weekend early November could be another excellent opportunity. It is a great way to bring people in to tactical training. Tell them it is like serious airsoft or something, there are no live fire safety worries etc. But they will learn a shit ton and have a great time as well.

    #47350
    Profile photo of wheelsee
    wheelsee
    Participant

    Gift codes for new members?? I.e. I’ll pay for my SIL to join the forum or like-minded people who aren’t ready to pull the trigger yet but the forum may be just the thing to do it. I pay for them and say “here you are, plug this (code) in and get involved.”

    Which is heavier - a soldier's pack or a slave's chains? Napoleon

    Strength, Honor. Maximus (Gladiator)

    If you tolerate evil, you yourself are evil.
    Col Hugo Martinez, Commander Search Bloc

    William, in The Republic - CRS/CTT 2017, HEAT 2/CQB/FonF 2018, DCH 2018

    #47351
    Profile photo of Robert
    Robert
    Participant

    Something others might consider is putting their State in their profile or signature line.

    www.jrhenterprises.com
    RMP, TC3, NODF, CRCD 6/14, CP 9/14. NODF, Land Nav, 6/15. Rifleman Challenge 9/15- Vanguard. FOFtactics 3/16, 10/16, 11/16, 6/17,11/17 CTT, 6/15, 11/16, , LRMC-1 9/17 GA Mobile CTT and DA 10/16, GA mobile DCH 3/18, HEAT1 3/18 Alum weekend 8/18, Opfor CLC 10/18, DA 11/18 CQBC 12/18

    #47353
    Profile photo of JohnnyMac
    JohnnyMac
    Participant

    I’ve been in discussions with various alumni about this subject and a few thoughts that might help others. These are by no means exhaustive, just some things that jump out.

    1) Get into a habit of regular training, even if you’re alone at the moment. If you can’t make the personal commitment to even training alone, how can you expect to spend time with your team?

    2) Take an active role in seeking out people who may have an interest in tactical training. Don’t expect anything to come of it. See #1 as to reasons why. Not so surprisingly, the people most likely to actually join you for training/discussion are MVT alumni/forum members. Seek them out on the forum and at classes.

    3) When you do find people outside of MVT open to the idea of training, don’t overwhelm them. Maybe someone just wants to learn how to read a map and use a compass, so be it. At the very least, it’s good practice for you. You have to go out of your way to build bridges. Not every bridge will lead somewhere, just keep building them. Keep it light and positive….small steps.

    4) Eventually, you’ll need a place to train as a team. The place is obviously dependent on the activity. Do what you can with the resources at your disposal and get creative. When a training activity is scheduled, make sure someone is taking the lead and has a specific plan for the activity. Check your ego and give everyone the opportunity to lead.

    #47354
    Profile photo of Robert
    Robert
    Participant

    For those that may not know- go to “The Lounge” at the list of subforums on the right hand side. There is a place called “Local Meeting spot” wherein people have posted from all over the U.S.

    I can tell you from doing this for over three decades, you can narrow down your search for serious people by starting with those that have already actually ponied up time, effort and money to train. This in general gets you a slightly higher caliber of people that understand not everything in life is free or easy. :)

    www.jrhenterprises.com
    RMP, TC3, NODF, CRCD 6/14, CP 9/14. NODF, Land Nav, 6/15. Rifleman Challenge 9/15- Vanguard. FOFtactics 3/16, 10/16, 11/16, 6/17,11/17 CTT, 6/15, 11/16, , LRMC-1 9/17 GA Mobile CTT and DA 10/16, GA mobile DCH 3/18, HEAT1 3/18 Alum weekend 8/18, Opfor CLC 10/18, DA 11/18 CQBC 12/18

    #47355
    Profile photo of zeerf
    zeerf
    Participant

    Awesome post and hope to see this shift happen sooner than later. I know it will not happen overnight but glad to see others recognizing the same issues and some good recommendations so far.

    #47360
    Profile photo of Dimitri Povozhaev (NE Ohio)
    ctpelok
    Participant

    At this time, working on a few people in NE Ohio to come train at MVT.

    Dimitri P.

    #47396
    Profile photo of Max Velocity
    Max
    Keymaster

    I just had a horrible thought. I am currently re-reading a book on psychology and leadership which I will announce and recommend when I am finished with it. Wha’s the thought?:

    Even as a sub-set of preppers here, we often complain that preppers do not train. What if it is the case that your typical ‘list of lists’ endless research prepper is actually totally unsuited to combat training? What if they are actually the least suitable guys to be part of a CUTT?

    We are all ‘preppers’ here to a certain extent, but there is always that warning we have to give at class about over-thinking and over-analyzing what are simple tactical concepts. We will give you principles not exact distances, for example. But it creeps in. But I expect that many MVT alumni are not really very good at prepping. I am not. I am a half assed prepper, with life and being busy getting in the way of all those perfect Rawlesian lists and preps. I can’t even find a flashlight, the kids have stolen them all! The only gear I can find is my tactical gear!

    So as ‘tactical guys’ are we barking up the wrong tree? But we are not in the camp with the tacticool flat range pew pew guys either, because we are hard core SUT tactical guys. Has anyone noticed that a lot of the full-on prepper types who were originally with MVT have fallen out as we have professionalized the classes more and more. We have gotten better, but many of those guys from 2013 fell by the wayside when classes got a bit more serious. It was not tactical fantasy prepper camp any more!

    (Relax – I know some of you guys are still here as originals!)

    So where to find your CUTT material? Many list of lists pepper types may notionally want to be able to defend their hoard, but in fact are mentally and physically unequipped to do so. Endless research – thinking of Robert’s recent short story….

    #47398
    Profile photo of Socks
    Socks
    Participant

    That is a scary but excellent point Max. Out of all the preppers I have known on a personal level I do not think any of them are really interested in learning SUT or doing anything beyond the occasional range trip. The only person that I know that I may be able to get out to MVT with me some day is a coworker who discovered that he loves tactical gear and rifles…. :unsure:

    The price of freedom is the willingness to do sudden battle anywhere, any time and with utter recklessness.

    Robert A. Heinlein

    #47404
    Profile photo of TC
    TC
    Participant

    What if it is the case that your typical ‘list of lists’ endless research prepper is actually totally unsuited to combat training? What if they are actually the least suitable guys to be part of a CUTT?

    I come from the patriot-prepper side of things, but until reading Contact! didn’t know the potential severity and scope of SHTF violence, let alone what it takes to deal with it. Once eyes were open, training with MVT was the logical and necessary choice. But my core motivation all along was to help defend life and liberty in the face of natural and man-made threats for the sake of ensuring a positive future. It wasn’t some zombie prepper gear fetish thing.

    These ‘list of lists’ preppers are closer to hoarders, collectors, fetishists, or hobbyists than actual preppers. Makes sense that they be the least suitable for CUTT. Whatever neurosis and denial underpins their lifestyle is not something I’d want around me.

    But we’re talking about a subset of preppers, the worst kind. MVT folks comprise a superior subset because their priorities aren’t backwards and it’s easier for you to just buy some flashlights than for a dude with 100 flashlights to get tactical training.

    Ironically, meanwhile we might know some guy in his 20s, military veteran, athletic, upstanding, enjoys shooting for sport… seems perfect for CUTT only he doesn’t believe in all this “conspiracy stuff” and thinks civilians practicing SUT to fight off post-collapse raiders is just a paranoid survivalist fantasy.

    I think that within the prepper crowd, the square range tacticool crowd, military/leo crowd, athletic crowd, etc. there will be a marginal subset in each that would respond positively to the MVT/CUTT concept if only given the necessary info. May be worthwhile for alumni to have MVT/CUTT oriented business cards, flyers, or brochures to give out discreetly to potential candidates.

    SE Florida ☆ CQBC 2017 ☆ CTT/DA 2017 ☆ CLC 2018

    #47405
    Profile photo of Brian from Georgia
    Brian from Georgia
    Participant

    You might be on to something there, TC. If you can’t get people to train out of fear, find people that want to train for the fun of it. Do FoF first to set the hook, then go back for CTT and DA.

    I’m thinking adventurer-athlete types. We all know a few of these. It’s the triathlon folks, the guys that do the mud runs or Go Ruck or even the dudes on the corporate softball or basketball team.

    3-4 Aug 2013 CRCD, 2-6 Aug 2014 CRCD/Patrol, 30 Sep 2016 Run n Gun, 1-2 Oct 2016 FoF, 3-4 March 2018 DCH alumni
    Team Coyote

    #47406
    Profile photo of Virgil Kane
    Virgil Kane
    Participant

    FOF was a real eye-opener for me. I always knew training would be helpful, but until I was on that team and defending or assaulting I didn’t realize how ill-prepared I was to take on a threat with my rifle. I learned a lot, but the biggest thing I learned is that I essentially know nothing and I need more training.

    FOF should be held 3-4 times per year to get new people into MVT. It’s fun and safe and the perfect first experience for the inexperienced.

    Masters II
    Georgia
    June 2017 Intro CQB, FOF-Team Deplorables
    October 2017 MVT South - CTT/DA
    March 2018 DCH

    #47408
    Profile photo of Joe (G.W.N.S.)
    Joe (G.W.N.S.)
    Moderator

    I just had a horrible thought. I am currently re-reading a book on psychology and leadership which I will announce and recommend when I am finished with it. What’s the thought?:

    Even as a sub-set of preppers here, we often complain that preppers do not train. What if it is the case that your typical ‘list of lists’ endless research prepper is actually totally unsuited to combat training? What if they are actually the least suitable guys to be part of a CUTT?

    Here is a equally horrible thought.

    If the family, friends, and members of a CUTT aren’t fully prepared preppers, what happens when this trained and armed group gets desperate for resources?

    Can’t feed themselves or worse their children?

    Such CUTT could easily become a true threat to their communities!

    #47409
    Profile photo of Diomedes
    diomedes
    Participant

    Max,
    I think your right. But things like the optimism bias get in the way. Most of us have full time jobs, and kids. My wife tolerates what she call my “tin foil hat” purchases and training more then most and even comes to training occasionally, but is not willing to give up weekends on a consistent basis for small group training. That plus trying to schedule time with 5-6 adults who each have the same group of pressures and possible have to travel to train with you makes this impossible.

    This is a real problem, both psychologically, temporally, and practically.

    I try to recruit, but once again to be honest, optimism bias gets in the way. People don’t see the need. Also in a lot of circles I travel in, people think your a nut if you talk about these things to much.

    Its hard. Not sure a good solution exists

    #47410
    Profile photo of Wild Bill
    wildbill
    Participant

    I think you are on to something Max about true hardcore preppers that it is a different mindset with all the list of list, the inventorying, everything in its place nothing out of place. I have to admit I am a half assed prepper who has downloaded a lot of list but hell I can’t remember where I saved most of those lists and doing an inventory of what I have, God the thought bores me to tears. Those true preppers if brought into your clan/tribe will be most comfortable in the Auxiliary or Supply Sergeant (if they don’t have it will find and procure it) role.

    I think that within the prepper crowd, the square range tacticool crowd, military/leo crowd, athletic crowd, etc. there will be a marginal subset in each that would respond positively to the MVT/CUTT concept if only given the necessary info. May be worthwhile for alumni to have MVT/CUTT oriented business cards, flyers, or brochures to give out discreetly to potential candidates.

    Maybe dig up that old MVT flyer and update it.

    If you can’t get people to train out of fear, find people that want to train for the fun of it. Do FoF first to set the hook, then go back for CTT and DA.

    Tell them it’s Airsoft and Paintball for adults :yes:

    Western North Carolina ― LRMC-1 Sept. 2017, CQBC May 2017, DCH March 2017, RS & CTT October. 2016, CTT 1511, LN 1

    “We don't rise to the level of our expectations, we fall to the level of our training.” ― Archilochos

    “I do believe that, where there is only a choice between cowardice and violence, I would advise violence..." - Gandhi

    #47412
    Profile photo of Jake
    Weber
    Participant

    Part of me thinks that there are also some monetary barriers to entry, whether they are real or perceived. I had a few close friends that I was actively recruiting to attend a class. They were all very interested and thought it would be fun and practical but once I showed them some costs, they all balked. Keep mind I didn’t put together a high dollar list of the coolest tactical gear or the very best AR-15s out there. What I showed them was the cost of a class, the cost of ammo, some basic load bearing gear, and a suitable rifle. I even offered to let them borrow my spare rifles and MOLLE gear to get them to attend. I still could not get anyone to commit based on costs. In my opinion, cost is a small barrier to entry, but well worth the investment. This leads me to wonder how much the cost to get started impacts commitment. I think most here would agree the price of the classes are extremely reasonable but maybe the overall package seems too high for some that are one the fence about attending. So again, it boils down to lack of commitment. And I don’t know of any way to fix that.

    My mom said I could be anything I wanted to be when I grew up. So I chose to be a man.

    #47413
    Profile photo of Max Velocity
    Max
    Keymaster

    Interesting. What can MVT do? We can’t pay for ammo for people – although UTM is included as part of the class cost. Maybe we need to expand the loaner program. We have 2 rifles. Maybe we need to supply a gear, mag, rifle package. I am loathe to do that for live fire classes due to the wear on the barrels. But UTM does not wear the barrels.

    I Think UTM Force on Force is the way to go to get many people into this. But I cannot do this alone, you guys have to sell this. For suitable people, I would be willing to loan them a rifle, mag, gear package so they can get into a Force on Force weekend. They still have the (very reasonable) class tuition and UTM fee, which is nothing compared to what many spend on other activities, even airsoft.

    I have been thinking of selling FoF as high end airsoft with real tactics. Think about selling them the cool fctor – i.e. it is the same training that SF guys do, in the same place and all that. You guys have to learn to sell the cool factor. But VK suggests 3 -4 times a year but to run FoF we need a big group of people and we need to generate numbers of November. So let;s do that – I can run the classes if I can get the numbers. Yes, the new website is about to drop imminently, and that many make a difference to perception of some of the younger folks, but ultimately you guys need to get people to class.

    Sad to say it, but if you want family / group to come from your potential CUTT, you may have to subsidize the costs (ask Rhino11 about that…..). I can do so much as MVT, but if you guys want to develop others who are trained, you also have to learn to sell it better.

    #47414
    Profile photo of JohnnyMac
    JohnnyMac
    Participant

    You might be on to something there, TC. If you can’t get people to train out of fear, find people that want to train for the fun of it. Do FoF first to set the hook, then go back for CTT and DA.

    I’m thinking adventurer-athlete types. We all know a few of these. It’s the triathlon folks, the guys that do the mud runs or Go Ruck or even the dudes on the corporate softball or basketball team.

    I come from the pew pew side of things, not the prepper side. Brian, these are the types I’ve been trying to influence, and making small progress. I think the GoRuck people are the front runners for this because they are not shy about physical stuff, understand/value “Team” and generally, money won’t be the limiting factor for them.

    #47415
    Profile photo of Virgil Kane
    Virgil Kane
    Participant

    Cost is definitely a factor with most people, even the ones that can easily afford it. Just like you say about having one good rifle with NODS capability…spend the money where it will make the most impact. It can be hard to rationalize dropping $1,200 on a weekend class plus room and board when you can spend that money on another rifle, ammo or food.

    I have an engineer buddy that has his family in Africa right now on a photography safari. He can afford it, but he hasn’t committed to MVT training. Although, he knows he needs it. I’m still working on him.

    Location and time are factors. I drove a day to get there and a day to get home for a 3 day class at MVT WV. (It was actually better for me mentally than my 10 day vacation on the beach in May.) That’s 5 days. I work for myself, so I don’t exactly have to worry about vacation days…as long as I get my projects done and keep my clients happy.

    You probably need more remote locations, though I know that is harder on you. I’m going to S GA in October, but that is still a 5 hour drive. I will end up being gone Tuesday through Sunday, because I will drive on Tuesday and then come home Sunday night. (another 4 days vacation for the poor bastards working for somebody else)

    If I could drive 2-3 hours, I could save a day and just leave out early for the first day of class.

    Masters II
    Georgia
    June 2017 Intro CQB, FOF-Team Deplorables
    October 2017 MVT South - CTT/DA
    March 2018 DCH

    #47416
    Profile photo of Robert
    Robert
    Participant

    I just had a horrible thought. I am currently re-reading a book on psychology and leadership which I will announce and recommend when I am finished with it. What’s the thought?:

    Even as a sub-set of preppers here, we often complain that preppers do not train. What if it is the case that your typical ‘list of lists’ endless research prepper is actually totally unsuited to combat training? What if they are actually the least suitable guys to be part of a CUTT?

    Here is a equally horrible thought.

    If the family, friends, and members of a CUTT aren’t fully prepared preppers, what happens when this trained and armed group gets desperate for resources?

    Can’t feed themselves or worse their children?

    Such CUTT could easily become a true threat to their communities!

    And Bingo was his name-O!!! + 1 million.

    That was always my concern with the fat militusha “kernals” back in the day. Most had a few followers, a smattering of gear and weapons and usually about zero food storage. Most carried their “food storage” around the waist belt. Even retards can be dangerous when they are starving or their kids are starving.

    I liken it to the dunskie that states that “I have guns so I will just TAKE food later.” Are you really ready to have to potentially fight for every meal? Your not that good, neither am I.

    We have to store food for our family and possibly slightly more for our close friends if they come up short. History has proven and continues to prove that dictatorial gubmints can and do use food as a weapon- from Pharoah buying up all of the Egypt during the famine of Biblical times down through Stalin starving out Ukraine which was the breadbasket of that area of the time, up to present in Venezelua.

    The good news is it can be done cheaply with whole grains, legumes, etc.

    Back to the OP- I look at these things as a big filter or funnel. Every thing you look at is narrowing down the people you really want to group up with when the time comes. Each thing is like a layer of the filter-
    *Do they train?
    *Is their family on board?
    *Decent character shown over time?
    *Are they truly preparing?
    *Are they taking care of themselves (health and PT)?

    Not conclusive list nor in any kind of order. Submitted to simply start discussion.

    www.jrhenterprises.com
    RMP, TC3, NODF, CRCD 6/14, CP 9/14. NODF, Land Nav, 6/15. Rifleman Challenge 9/15- Vanguard. FOFtactics 3/16, 10/16, 11/16, 6/17,11/17 CTT, 6/15, 11/16, , LRMC-1 9/17 GA Mobile CTT and DA 10/16, GA mobile DCH 3/18, HEAT1 3/18 Alum weekend 8/18, Opfor CLC 10/18, DA 11/18 CQBC 12/18

    #47418
    Profile photo of Mike H
    Mike H
    Participant

    It’s an endless mission…..been trying to cobble together a group for a long time. Thought I had a guy to bring along to MVT next spring….but like other times the usual excuses start to crop up “Wow that’s a lot of money….Man shoot up that much ammo?……My wife will kill me if I use vacation for this….”

    I’ve been down that road of loaner rifles and paying for ammo/gas for others in Appleseed…..that’s why I’m inactive.

    Couple of years ago I attended an appearance by Stewart Rhodes 30 miles east of me…he asked if anyone has attended tactical training. I raised my hand….and he said ” there’s your guy…he will train you!” Bridge ladies and old guys with O2 tanks and walkers :wacko:

    I keep trying…..I printed up a bunch of MVT flyers and have a table at a gun show in a couple of weeks….selling off some stuff(pay of more classes) and maybe a battle buddy will walk up………..

    “That’s all what is left?? These aren’t men, they are devils!"

    Colonel Milan 30 April 1863 aftermath of the Battle of Camaron

    CRCD March '14, CP May '15
    CTT Dec. '15, CTT(Idaho) '17

    #47419
    Profile photo of Wes
    wesmc
    Participant

    It’s all true…pretty much everything mentioned above. I’m a horrible prepper, having maybe a month’s worth of sustenance stored away in the form of rice and beans. I have a flashlight fetish, so at least I can find a light. :yahoo:

    I know some of the list-making preppers, and the ones I know have no interest in self defense. They think their .22 rifle and tens-of-thousands of rounds are all they need.

    The gun nuts are all too fat, out of shape, and too fucking lazy to train tactically. This includes most veterans I know… :-(

    Brian from GA touched on something that I had previously considered – adventure/athlete types. I live in an area of WV, New River Gorge, where whitewater Kayaking/rafting, climbing, and mountain biking are popular activities. The main issue with folks within this crowd is that the vast majority of them are leftists, and those that are not seem to have no interest in becoming citizen soldiers.

    I’ve tried the Crossfit crowd, too, and the ones I know are only interested in maintaining a strange sort of hard corps image. For instance, some of them are buying plate carriers to wear during their workouts…and putting fucking weights in them that were designed for a workout weight vest. :yahoo:

    I’ve fucking had it with people. :wacko:

    C2G Feb 2015, CTT March 2016, CQB June 2018

    #47420
    Profile photo of Books
    The Librarian
    Participant

    There are some very useful observations in this thread.

    FWIW, I think a lot a preppers are in fact homesteaders (or wannabe homesteaders?) more than anything, especially those in the Rawlesian camp. They are really into off-grid, sustainable living. Homesteading is how they prep. Their homestead is their “retreat”. Most of their preps are centered around that concept I think.

    Now I am not against a homestead, or a retreat, or any of that. But how realistic is that for the majority of us?

    I guess you could say that I shifted from being a “prepper” to true “tactical preparedness” and came here to MVT.

    Georgia - RS/CTT-8/16

    #47421
    Profile photo of Virgil Kane
    Virgil Kane
    Participant

    This includes most veterans I know…

    A lot of younger vets I’ve talked to look at it the same way my Dad does. My Dad spent 1969-1970 with the 1st Cav living on LZ’s and chasing Chuck through rice paddies. “Hell, I know how to do that.”

    Masters II
    Georgia
    June 2017 Intro CQB, FOF-Team Deplorables
    October 2017 MVT South - CTT/DA
    March 2018 DCH

    #47422
    Profile photo of RonW
    farmer
    Participant

    ” you also have to learn to sell it better.”

    Does anyone have any recommendations for books or websites where we can learn how to sell MVT?

    learn HOW to present it. verbally, flyers, business cards, etc.

    farmer

    RonW

    #47423
    Profile photo of Books
    The Librarian
    Participant

    Interesting.
    I Think UTM Force on Force is the way to go to get many people into this. But I cannot do this alone, you guys have to sell this. For suitable people, I would be willing to loan them a rifle, mag, gear package so they can get into a Force on Force weekend. They still have the (very reasonable) class tuition and UTM fee, which is nothing compared to what many spend on other activities, even airsoft.

    I have been thinking of selling FoF as high end airsoft with real tactics. Think about selling them the cool fctor – i.e. it is the same training that SF guys do, in the same place and all that. You guys have to learn to sell the cool factor. But VK suggests 3 -4 times a year but to run FoF we need a big group of people and we need to generate numbers of November. So let;s do that – I can run the classes if I can get the numbers. Yes, the new website is about to drop imminently, and that many make a difference to perception of some of the younger folks, but ultimately you guys need to get people to class.

    Max,

    Have you considered having rental packages of gear for FoF?

    Georgia - RS/CTT-8/16

    #47425
    Profile photo of Wes
    wesmc
    Participant

    This includes most veterans I know…

    A lot of younger vets I’ve talked to look at it the same way my Dad does. My Dad spent 1969-1970 with the 1st Cav living on LZ’s and chasing Chuck through rice paddies. “Hell, I know how to do that.”

    Exactly

    C2G Feb 2015, CTT March 2016, CQB June 2018

    #47427
    Profile photo of Wild Bill
    wildbill
    Participant

    As one of the older members on this forum that still trains I know that my days are numbered no matter how much I try to stay in shape and wish otherwise. Knowing that age and physical ability is a limiting factor for most of MVT training I hope that many on this forum who are using that as an excuse for not actually signing up for a class will find a family member or trusted friend who could do the class if they had that class paid for would step up and sponsor them.

    Presently I am trying to talk my SIL into attending FoF with me in November with the hope that I can get him to come back for other classes. Thinking about this subject and the need for my families survival in a SHTF world I will pay for him to attend the class if need be if that is what it will take and I will do the same for my grandkids as each is old enough and mature enough.

    Not trying to divert this thread but with the future completion of the Team Bunkhouse I hope that in the not too distant future you might consider a British style Cadet summer camp for teens because I would sure love to get my grandkids into it — future MVT alumni.

    Western North Carolina ― LRMC-1 Sept. 2017, CQBC May 2017, DCH March 2017, RS & CTT October. 2016, CTT 1511, LN 1

    “We don't rise to the level of our expectations, we fall to the level of our training.” ― Archilochos

    “I do believe that, where there is only a choice between cowardice and violence, I would advise violence..." - Gandhi

    #47428
    Profile photo of tango
    tango
    Participant

    Johnny and Robert are dishing out great help. This is coming from people who are either currently doing it or have done it at length in the past.

    Rather than discussing what can go wrong, bad, or difficult, why don’t yall focus on your best chance at success and start talking about that? Patience and discipline are going to be a big factor. If you’re failing, consider taking a look back at yourself.

    ” you also have to learn to sell it better.”

    Ever seen Wolf of Wall Street? Remember the “Sell me this pen” bit? Here’s the real Jordan Belfort’s actual response from an article online:

    “It’s sort of a trick question. Because when you say to a salesman, ‘Sell me this pen,’ you might find some will say to you, ‘This is a great pen, this pen writes upside down. It defies gravity, this pen is the cheapest pen on earth, this pen will never run out.’ They’ll say all the reasons the pen is good, they’ll start telling you the features, and the better ones will give you the benefits too. But that’s not what the real answer is.

    “The real answer is, before I’m even going to sell a pen to anybody, I need to know about the person, I want to know what their needs are, what kind of pens do they use, do they use a pen? How often do they use a pen? Do they like to use a pen formally, to sign things, or use it in their everyday life? The first idea is that when you say ‘Sell me this pen,’ I want to hear [the salesman] ask me a question. ‘So tell me, how long have you been in the market for a pen?’ I want them to turn it around on me and start asking me questions to identify my needs, what I’m looking for. And if you do that, people don’t know what to do. Next thing, he is answering, and now I’m controlling the conversation, finding out exactly what he needs.

    “Once I have that, I say, ‘You know, Bill, based on what you’ve just said to me, the pen I have here is the perfect fit. Let me tell you what it’s about…’ Then you can tell them about what you have, because you’re filling a need. Most average or newbie salespeople think that they’re supposed to sell you the pen, when a really seasoned salesperson will actually turn it into a qualifying session to find out what you need. That’s the truth of it. It’s like trying to sell someone a house and you don’t know if they’re in the market for a house, what kind of house they want, how many kids – so how can you sell someone a house? That’s the point.”

    Baptême du feu
    L'appel du vide

    #47431
    Profile photo of RonW
    farmer
    Participant

    Tango, thanks for the refresher. :good:

    farmer

    RonW

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