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This Forum, Your Group, Your CUTT

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This topic contains 105 replies, has 31 voices, and was last updated by Profile photo of FreedomOak FreedomOak 3 months ago.

Viewing 30 posts - 31 through 60 (of 106 total)
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  • #47432
    Profile photo of zeerf
    zeerf
    Participant

    I’ve fucking had it with people. :wacko:

    I totally agree with this and understand this did not just come from a quick and easy attempt at getting others to train with. I feel like we all have struggled with this in some shape or form for longer than we would admit and some more than others for sure. been there, done that, got that t-shirt type of thing as it appears many others have. Lots of great points being raised, great discussion lets keep it going.

    @tango I like your approach on trying to focus on “best chance at success” personally in my mind, I continue to focus on the things I can control (personal training, mind and body fitness, and preparations) as I continue to search for these “unicorns” that live within reasonable distance and share many of the same values and back it up with practical commitment to training. Sadly I have a lingering thought in the back of my mind that to get the ideal size of group almost certainly would mean a relocation in the future and research continues to go into this as well.

    #47433
    Profile photo of JohnnyMac
    JohnnyMac
    Participant

    ” you also have to learn to sell it better.”

    Does anyone have any recommendations for books or websites where we can learn how to sell MVT?

    learn HOW to present it. verbally, flyers, business cards, etc.

    farmer

    A great book is How to Win Friends and Influence People by Dale Carnegie. It’s from the 1930’s and so some pop culture references go over my head, but it’s core message is pretty close to what @tango has above. Times change, but basic human psychology doesn’t.

    See pdf attached

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    #47437
    Profile photo of tango
    tango
    Participant

    I continue to focus on the things I can control (personal training, mind and body fitness, and preparations) as I continue to search for these “unicorns” that live within reasonable distance and share many of the same values and back it up with practical commitment to training. Sadly I have a lingering thought in the back of my mind that to get the ideal size of group almost certainly would mean a relocation in the future and research continues to go into this as well.

    @zeerf

    Embodying it to the point where people can just see/feel it exuding from your presence is top tier. You’ve got the idea :) My personal experience so far has been that people become interested at a greater percentage via observation than being sales pitched. If they see you doing something they like they want to be involved and it’s easier to craft a fruitful invite. If you approach someone cold you’ve put them in a whole different mental state and it’s much harder to generate fruitful interactions. Lots of psychology there, undoubtedly covered in @johnnymac ‘s suggested book above. Anyone reading this, please do not take this as me suggesting we all dive into the rabbit hole of psychology and sales technique. We’ll end up 10 years into a master’s degree with no more friends again haha.

    Relocation: while it was undoubtedly easier for me to do so due to my own circumstances I can tell you that the move improved my life in more ways than just training partners. Life is a lot less stressful when you are surrounded by people of at least a related cloth.

    If you make some friends I’m totally going to tell them you referred to them as “unicorns” :yahoo:

    @farmer ;-) :good:

    Baptême du feu
    L'appel du vide

    #47449
    Profile photo of Ivarr Bergmann
    Ivarr Bergmann
    Participant

    Training has to be who you are and what you’re about. Its not a hobby or back burner interest like most want to pretend it is. Its a way of life. Finding the same dedication and absolute resolve in another person is nearly next to impossible to find. 99.9999% will sell you a good line when it comes time to meet up but they never deliver and will fade and vanish along the way when they realize its actually work..

    Im retired and If i lived back east I would give my time freely to MVT just for the cause of Survival and no other reason. But If he ever adds an UW element to his school needing bodies to roll play and train Im moving back to Romney before Im done reading the email…

    That is all..

    #47450
    Profile photo of Max Velocity
    Max
    Keymaster

    . But If he ever adds an UW element to his school needing bodies to roll play and train Im moving back to Romney before Im done reading the email…

    I’m confused….everything we do is UW. Once i figure this out, I know how to get you back from Alaska

    #47452
    Profile photo of Ivarr Bergmann
    Ivarr Bergmann
    Participant

    . But If he ever adds an UW element to his school needing bodies to roll play and train Im moving back to Romney before Im done reading the email…

    I’m confused….everything we do is UW. Once i figure this out, I know how to get you back from Alaska

    Holy Odin I wonder how you tie your shoes in the morning sometimes.. ;-)

    Think Robin Sage..

    #47453
    Profile photo of Max Velocity
    Max
    Keymaster

    Guess you are to far away for any of the ODA training classes then….

    #47456
    Profile photo of wheelsee
    wheelsee
    Participant

    @tango

    EXACTLY!! Just bought a care for the wife. She already knew what she wanted so did the online thing and had 6 phone calls within 30 minutes. All but 1 wanted me to come by and see what they had. only 1 asked me questions of what we were looking for. He ended up with a sale….. and I reinforced with him the reason I was buying from him was because he took the time to ask me what our needs/wants were.

    Maybe “the sell” shouldn’t be us telling everyone. Maybe “the sell” should be in response to a discussion – of concerns, or activities. Then bringing up whatever class MVT offers that would fit the response.

    Which is heavier - a soldier's pack or a slave's chains? Napoleon

    Strength, Honor. Maximus (Gladiator)

    If you tolerate evil, you yourself are evil.
    Col Hugo Martinez, Commander Search Bloc

    William, in The Republic - CRS/CTT 2017, HEAT 2/CQB/FonF 2018, DCH 2018

    #47459
    Profile photo of Mountain Mom
    gramma
    Participant

    Well, I’m that prototypical homesteader. BUT, I got interested in the tactical side of things, out of an awareness of how many crazies are planning to just come take what they want. I’d like to have some skills to prevent that, ya know?? I’m not sure the conceal carry class makes me an alumni, but I am still working on enough PT to take the basic rifleman course (unfamiliar with AR platform) without slowing things down and will willingly pay for my daughter to join me for that and other courses. She has the ability and probably better marksmanship. Right now, I’m a little tied down with serious summer projects and in the fall, daughter goes back to work.

    I’m also involved in several other forums. I do come in contact with people who are attempting to form/maintain groups and organize and train along the same lines as Max’s idea. The “minuteman” types are the ones I’m targeting, as they’re way more serious than the usual. They want to be effective as a tactical group to protect their larger group. They’ve shared some basic organization of how they’re trying to fill the auxiliary and logistics roles. They’re working on PT; they’re training on their own. They’re a good fit for MVT.

    Last thing I posted, was the blog-post on the designated marksman concept… and that got a good response. Right now those guys are very busy with projects and their own training ideas. Next time I post about MVT, I’ll mention the force of force training and the forum. Those guys are at various places on the learning spectrum, too. And remind them, they don’t know what they don’t know.

    I covered the professionalism of the training and that I also had some worries about what I might be getting into, with MVT – and that they were all for nought. Y’all are the good guys. So, I’ll keep working on them… link to course schedules… etc… without overdoing it. And I’ll try to get them to come over to the forum for the education. Questions come up that generate a lot of educated guesses. Not answers or logic.

    #47463
    Profile photo of Brushpopper
    Brushpopper
    Participant

    @Max I have to hide all my good flashlights so my kids don’t get them! I put them with my gear down in the bottom of a bag somewhere where I know I can get to it.

    I have an Alumni friend out in west Texas, I’m in south Texas, and we are hopefully going to get together one weekend soon, but to be able to do it frequently (hell once a month would be great in my opinion) is damn near impossible because of the six hour drive. I am working on some friends of mine, but the process is slow trying to sell them on it. Price is a factor, but time and commitment is as well. There is another guy I’ve met who is not to far away, I may be able to talk him into it. He has gone to tons of square range (I believe Paul Howe classes), I’m going to try talking to him as well.

    The classes I had a Brady this past February was great, and am I looking forward to more! :yahoo:

    ~ Little - South Texas

    #47464
    Profile photo of wheelsee
    wheelsee
    Participant

    @brushpopper

    Head on up to DFW and I’ll drive up to OK with ya!! ;-)

    Most don’t realize the breadth of TX……where even a jaunt to the city is measured in hours, not miles…. B-)

    Which is heavier - a soldier's pack or a slave's chains? Napoleon

    Strength, Honor. Maximus (Gladiator)

    If you tolerate evil, you yourself are evil.
    Col Hugo Martinez, Commander Search Bloc

    William, in The Republic - CRS/CTT 2017, HEAT 2/CQB/FonF 2018, DCH 2018

    #47465
    Profile photo of Brushpopper
    Brushpopper
    Participant

    @brushpopper

    Head on up to DFW and I’ll drive up to OK with ya!! ;-)

    Most don’t realize the breadth of TX……where even a jaunt to the city is measured in hours, not miles…. B-)

    :good: haha yeah its a far piece to the city!

    ~ Little - South Texas

    #47466
    Profile photo of WTL
    veritas556
    Participant

    Maslow’s hierarchy of needs might offer some insights… not going all psychobabble but some observations…

    People spend the majority of their waking time doing 2 things – acquiring physiological needs and satisfying emotional needs via the cultivation of family and friends. Naturally, protecting those things is paramount which is Maslow’s 2nd base need. Make’s sense, right?

    Herein lies the rub.

    Government and the civil society were constituted to protect these things so ostensibly, people could send more time acquiring them instead of more time securing them. Capitalism!

    Yet the vast majority do not believe these things, in our society anyway, are in any mortal danger outside of the random, lone encounter which is why CCW usage has exploded. Even some I train with regularly only see value in defensive handgun practice as that is all they really believe they will ever need the skills to encounter. And even that is a remote possibility to most. Let’s face it, in our lifetimes Americans have enjoyed a pretty damn sleepy existence, historically speaking. The perception is that “everything will always be OK”.

    I do not buy into this illusion. Perhaps I’ve read too much history. Maybe it’s too much time on Zero Hedge. In any event, my rational senses tell me a great fuse has been lit – only we don’t know which explosive is inside the bomb.

    THAT is why I train. To secure my stuff and people. To survive. Maybe.

    In the beginning of my training and prepping journey it was, upon reflection, a satisfying “sense” of security. This is good enough for most and is perhaps why merely owning a gun or a few buckets of beans and water suffices for those that have at least recognized the “lit fuse”.

    It wasn’t until that first CTT class that I realized, “I’m fucked.” DKWYDK, right? So I went to more classes. I joined a local training group. But then it wasn’t until the recent FOF that I came to the more honest conclusion that I’m really fucked as a “CUTT of One”.

    Many of us here have likewise come to this conclusion at some point. Hence the frustration Max feels as a business owner and us as lone Patriots.

    I’ve come to the realization the only way to give myself and my protectees even the smallest chance of surviving is to build a trained, competent team that not only lives close by but also commits to joint defense if/when that fuse hits its end. Even then…

    So I am going to try a different tact. I will work to create chinks in the “armor of normalcy bias” among those around me. The evidence is all around us, it’s not hard to come by. We should all be students in this game called reality and be prepared to coherently explain what the Red Pill really means. I will seek out those who have the mental and physical aptitude for a CUTT. Not necessarily shooting hobbyists or preppers.

    Job one is to get good people to swallow the Red Pill. Only then will more folks be open to learning about the reality of protecting their stuff and people. Let them know their safety is an illusion and they will seek the refuge of team and training. I see no stronger sense to appeal to. I’ll let you all know how that goes…

    #47467
    Profile photo of tango
    tango
    Participant

    @wheelsee Glad to see you can recognize the tactics being applied to you! Bravo sir.

    Training has to be who you are and what you’re about. Its not a hobby or back burner interest like most want to pretend it is. Its a way of life. Finding the same dedication and absolute resolve in another person is nearly next to impossible to find. 99.9999% will sell you a good line when it comes time to meet up but they never deliver and will fade and vanish along the way when they realize its actually work..

    To be abundantly clear, what I’m advocating amounts to essentially marketing yourself – be the type of person that attracts the type of attention you’re looking for. This requires unmitigated daily discipline in all things and is in art in itself. It goes far beyond wearing the t-shirt. Do this for long enough and you will notice the right type of people present themselves.

    Compound this affect by putting yourself in the right places as @Robert @lowdown3 suggests. Become more efficient by focusing your efforts where they are most likely to produce results. When you’re starting out there’s little sense in spending energy trying to get the lowest guy on the totem pole up one rung while the top guy is 15 steps ahead.

    Compound this affect even further by taking @johnnymac‘s advice. Remain observant of the people you attract and their body language. Use your understanding of psychology to tailor your approach for maximum affect. Intimidation does not sell things – making people comfortable does. Work your smooth flank approach!

    If you want to practice this for an entire week under stress with a dozen other people take Combat Leader Course.

    What I am ABSOLUTELY NOT ADVOCATING here is walking around observing people and constantly judging them against a checklist and then writing them off once they miss a check-mark. Many people have value, you just need to find it and help guide them to the right position to make the most of it.

    This post is of course a complete simplification and overview of the entire concept glossing over a lot of nuance.

    *Disclaimer: At no point do I proclaim to be a master at this. Understanding the concept and mastering the art are two completely different things.

    Yall in Texas, Idaho, and Missouri are doing a damn fine job based on the content I’ve seen. It’s a big goal of mine to make it out to one of those events some day and meet you guys. :good:

    Baptême du feu
    L'appel du vide

    #47469
    Profile photo of tango
    tango
    Participant

    Job one is to get good people to swallow the Red Pill. Only then will more folks be open to learning about the reality of protecting their stuff and people. Let them know their safety is an illusion and they will seek the refuge of team and training. I see no stronger sense to appeal to. I’ll let you all know how that goes…

    Unsolicited opinion: this does not sound like it will generate the reaction you’re looking for. From the person on the other end what they’re seeing is someone directly coming at some of their core beliefs. Regardless of how “right” you are, you will be met with resistance simply out of self defense, spite, pride, etc. That becomes intimidating and overwhelming – counter to what @johnnymac is saying.

    Rather than that, if you’ve picked out some people you think might be worthwhile why don’t you do some activities with them? If they’re worthwhile you probably have some common interests. Don’t discuss training or politics at all at first. Maybe you go to the gym, go for a run, do some shooting, hiking, movies, whatever you’re into. As you’re doing these things embody the principles you are looking for. Show your discipline, help push them that extra 100m on that run, push them that extra 10lb on that squat, don’t be frivolous, and when they start asking “how did you get like this” – remain calm – slide in a little MVT name drop. “The people over at MVT really keep me going.” Or something to that effect. Leave it at that. Don’t push it. Pay attention the next week or two and see how it goes from there. If they went home and checked out the MVT website and enjoyed it chances are they’ll bring it up later. Build from there.

    Baptême du feu
    L'appel du vide

    #47471
    Profile photo of Joe (G.W.N.S.)
    Joe (G.W.N.S.)
    Moderator

    To be abundantly clear, what I’m advocating amounts to essentially marketing yourself – be the type of person that attracts the type of attention you’re looking for. This requires unmitigated daily discipline in all things and is in art in itself. It goes far beyond wearing the t-shirt. Do this for long enough and you will notice the right type of people present themselves.

    I applaud your enthusiasm Tango!

    So how many have you brought into your team?

    #47473
    Profile photo of WTL
    veritas556
    Participant

    @tango – I hear what you’re saying. People don’t like to be “sold”. I know. I’m in the advertising biz ;) The soft sell method is what we use everyday. The difference is we are selling to a need most customers inherently know they already have – the need for more customers.

    My premise (in training) is that most folks don’t acknowledge the need to begin with. Even among people I “train” with, the need to train SUT is almost a joke to them. Why? Their core premise of safety is intact. They just don’t see the need for it. The time and money commitment for proper training simply weighs more than their “want” resources allow. This is well illustrated by the consensus observation that new trainees/team members are difficult to come by.

    I see no evidence that “courting” people into training works. What did Einstein say about doing the same thing over and over again…

    Generally humans need a BIG perspective change to make new major commitments in their life. ie: the guy who changes his diet AFTER his first heart attack. I’m pretty sure that same guy was inundated with soft appeals by family and friends, media and information prior. Yet to no avail.

    I’m not advocating going all tin foil hat on people. I don’t need Alex Jones to make coherent arguments. Nor would I engage in these efforts with perfect strangers. But if we avoid getting into meaningful discussion about the real world and its implications for our safety because we’re afraid to upset their core beliefs, we have already lost.

    #47474
    Profile photo of Roadkill
    Roadkill
    Participant

    I believe it was Hereclitus who said something like,”Rome sends me one hundred men, eighty shouldn’t be here, 19 are soldiers, oh, for the one warrior to bring them all home.” I believe true fighters are just few and far between. We shouldn’t hate the others for being sheep, it’s who they are. You may be able to train them through operant conditioning but you most likely won’t totally change the way their brains are wired. Sheep do not like sheep dogs and vice versa. Sheepdogs are scary. I would think most on the forum fall in that 20% somewhere, maybe even a few being 1%ers. All might like to be 1%ers but it just isn’t so. It’s hard to get a team together. Just keep forming relationships and maybe you’ll find that one or twenty out of a hundred that share your mindset. Just don’t hate the other 80% for being who they are.

    RS/CTT Nov 16
    HEAT1 Aug18

    #47480
    Profile photo of Max Velocity
    Max
    Keymaster

    I think there is a lot in the various comments here. I see that perhaps due to various shows such as Doomsday Preppers, people can take a dim view of what we do on the preparation and tactical preparation fronts. Due to what Veritas identified as the feeling of safety / security, many have no idea why we would do any of this. Added to that, many homestead-style preppers themselves see tactical preparation as unnecessary.

    Ever had: “What, you are one of those Doomsday Preppers”? Accompanied by a mocking grin?

    Rather than make excuses or allow them to morally assume the high ground, don’t get into it at all. Don’t make excuses for what you do. Just do it with confidence and inspire by example.

    There should be no question of the validity of going to the range and training SUT. Give them the odd look if they question it.

    Put it this way: do airsofters or other hobbyists tolerate questions about why they do what they do? Oh, so crossfit, why would you bother doing that, you don’t need to be fit? Why mountain bike when you have a car? Why do you pew pew tacticool 10 yards from the target on the range? You see my point.

    Train with confidence. Be all you can be. Exude warrior mindset.

    #47481
    Profile photo of Books
    The Librarian
    Participant

    And then there is this, which came from my daughter, but is representative of reactions I have gotten from others.

    “Oh Dad, are you part of the militia…?”

    Georgia - RS/CTT-8/16

    #47488
    Profile photo of Joe (G.W.N.S.)
    Joe (G.W.N.S.)
    Moderator

    What is your standing with others and your community?

    Are you a valued member of your community?

    Or are you the “nut” that is always talking doom and gloom?

    Involved in community organizations efforts to improve things?

    Or the “nut” that rants about how America’s dead, but offers no solutions that are backed with visible action?

    What is the first thought that comes to mind when others think about you?

    #47493
    Profile photo of Ivarr Bergmann
    Ivarr Bergmann
    Participant

    Image trying to get a date with the name Ivarr Bergmann in this little community! There’s no mistaken who I am. Ive met several ladies this year and they immediately afterwards Googled the name after we talked. Some were encouraged to pursue me but many were down right terrified and asked me to leave them alone. They get every pic and article im involved with in my survivalist mode-face paint and all. Now that my life has changed and I live in a cabin on top a mountain with two dogs and alone..Oh the conclusions that are jumped to..!

    Today i get to meet my new GF parents. They already have it in their head Im in the Alaska Militia/ Patriot Bowel Movement because they too Googled me and also stalked my at FB page..Add in the Norse symbols around my cabin. my Norse tats and the extensive library on camo that started with Germany in WWII and Im a fuken Nazi..

    These days I see it as humorous other then the grief it may cause my GF having to explain me away in a good light to her fam. I wouldn’t want to have to explain me to my family..I had the talk with her recently about the diff between the shit they see on the Tv and the news and what I and other ‘professional types’ are really about. She never even imagined there was a dif but I schooled her in the right direction and she gets it now.

    Patriot? I have a Scottish flag flying outside my cabin and I don’t own US flag in any form. Nazi? My best friend was a black guy who is now in prison and the guys on my team have biracial children..Not very Sturmbahnfuhrer of me to tolerate that if Im a Nazi. Paranoid? I haven’t watched or read a news article in almost 5 months..

    Ppl conclude as they are programmed. There’s just no getting around that. “Professionals” and aspiring types are what you get here….Birds of a feather things.. There’s no enabling or tolerance of deliberate mediocrity here…

    Ivarr

    #47495
    Profile photo of Joe (G.W.N.S.)
    Joe (G.W.N.S.)
    Moderator

    Image trying to get a date with the name Ivarr Bergmann in this little community!

    Certainly some have a more difficult road to perceived legitimacy than others.

    In todays World to be known online is permanent.

    Small towns can be great, but without family ties you will always be the new guy, but not necessarily an outsider once established.

    Ppl conclude as they are programmed. There’s just no getting around that.

    What’s done is done for most, however I orchestrated most of my available public knowledge for a desired outcome initially. Not an option for most.

    Important to realize it wasn’t about lies or disinformation, but controlling the release of the order in which information was available.

    Survivalist was of course one of the last things and is greatly obscured by perceptions of what a retired career military member is.

    Military is supposed to be prepared, right? ;-)

    #47497
    Profile photo of Ivarr Bergmann
    Ivarr Bergmann
    Participant

    Image trying to get a date with the name Ivarr Bergmann in this little community!

    Certainly some have a more difficult road to perceived legitimacy than others.

    In todays World to be known online is permanent.

    Small towns can be great, but without family ties you will always be the new guy, but not necessarily an outsider once established.

    Evey few month someone in the Ak Militia gets the idea its a good idea to contact me. This year i was invited to their yearly meet up in Talkeetna. This was in June. I almost went and took some of the guys from Team Alaska with me. It was a prime opportunity to gather inlet on them but regardless I rebuffed the invite.. Being ID’ed as hanging with them and lumped in that category with them isn’t what I want and the juice isn’t worth the squeeze..And I don’t make that size up from the Tv and things Ive read, i make that size up from shit Ive seen them do time and time again with their intent antics and self inflicted dipshitery…

    Ivarr

    #47498
    Profile photo of Joe (G.W.N.S.)
    Joe (G.W.N.S.)
    Moderator

    Evey few month someone in the Ak Militia gets the idea its a good idea to contact me.

    Don’t blame you on avoiding that, nothing but negatives come from such groups in my opinion.

    It’s certainly tempting to want know and possibly help such groups, but the harsh reality is they are mostly beyond help and led by fools.

    #47499
    Profile photo of Books
    The Librarian
    Participant

    I found this to be an interesting article. He is a friend of Dodge and some of the comments seem to be aimed at Max, but it was thought provoking.

    The Shura

    Georgia - RS/CTT-8/16

    #47500
    Profile photo of Wes
    wesmc
    Participant

    So, I’ve attempted to find teammates from within the local outdoor adventure crowd, the Crossfitters, the gun-nutz, close friends…I wonder…maybe the LBGT crowd? ;-)

    C2G Feb 2015, CTT March 2016, CQB June 2018

    #47501
    Profile photo of Joe (G.W.N.S.)
    Joe (G.W.N.S.)
    Moderator

    I found this to be an interesting article.

    While there is some merit in that article, I am unimpressed by the author in general.

    Far too many “false bravado” comments have appeared from time to time when he doesn’t take time to think it through in comment sections. This I suspect exposes part of his real core values unmasked.

    This behavior can be somewhat overlooked from junior troops at times, but is highly suspect from what should be a mature exchange of ideas IMHO.

    I base such observations over long term observation, unfortunately most don’t have time for that much exposure.

    Anyone can be coherent on occasion, but how are they over the long haul?

    That said, I am glad you got something of value from it.

    Variety of ideas is generally good for reasoned thought.

    #47502
    Profile photo of Wes
    wesmc
    Participant

    Maybe some of those highly motivated transgenders who are disappointed in Trump’s decision would be interested?

    C2G Feb 2015, CTT March 2016, CQB June 2018

    #47510
    Profile photo of Books
    The Librarian
    Participant

    I found this to be an interesting article.

    While there is some merit in that article, I am unimpressed by the author in general.

    Far too many “false bravado” comments have appeared from time to time when he doesn’t take time to think it through in comment sections. This I suspect exposes part of his real core values unmasked.

    This behavior can be somewhat overlooked from junior troops at times, but is highly suspect from what should be a mature exchange of ideas IMHO.

    I base such observations over long term observation, unfortunately most don’t have time for that much exposure.

    Anyone can be coherent on occasion, but how are they over the long haul?

    That said, I am glad you got something of value from it.

    Variety of ideas is generally good for reasoned thought.

    Joe, I actually agree with you about 100%. I have read him a long time, initially for the Ham related technical articles, then just because he was linked on WRSA. But over time WRSA has lost it’s luster for me, so I have grown ever more skeptical.

    A common thread between NCScout and Dodge is Sgt. Barry. What do you make of that?

    Georgia - RS/CTT-8/16

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