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This Forum, Your Group, Your CUTT

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This topic contains 105 replies, has 31 voices, and was last updated by Profile photo of FreedomOak FreedomOak 3 months ago.

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  • #47514
    Profile photo of Joe (G.W.N.S.)
    Joe (G.W.N.S.)
    Moderator

    Joe, I actually agree with you about 100%.

    I know you know this, but for the benefit of newer members. We at MVT have no expectation for complete agreement on such things. We do expect rational arguments to support your point of view.

    This is just to get ahead of possible false assumptions and appearances that can be made.

    A common thread between NCScout and Dodge is Sgt. Barry. What do you make of that?

    Off the top of my head without review, they tend to reinforce each others beliefs. This is not always the case as I can think of few occasions where Barry stepped too far out of line within their “groupthink.”

    When a perceived attack on the facts/beliefs of one by an “outsider” is when you tend to see them close ranks to support one another.

    A full time job could be made on the analysis of the unique interactions between WRSA, it’s principle commenter’s, and peripheral associated Blogs.

    Would make for an interesting dissertation for someones doctorate. ;-)

    #47515
    Profile photo of Max Velocity
    Max
    Keymaster

    Re: brushbeater / dodge: I have not had time to read the article. However, there is a pathology there as evidenced in the Bad Advice thread. I am not paranoid in seeing slantways comments. I do not see it anymore now that I do not follow WRSA.

    Just because these guys are out there on blogs and given voice by WRSA, does not mean they should have value or that you should follow them. In fact as a ‘conglomerate of one man’s (WRSA) vision of the Liberty movement ‘ I reject them.

    Given the topic here, as Tactical Enthusiasts I would urge more discretion.

    #47519
    Profile photo of Justin
    Justin
    Participant

    Family and very close friends to start. I know the competition 3 gun crowd gets a bad rap. I get it cool. But take your flat range family/ close friends there. Get them hooked. Its kinda like a gate way drug. It will show typical shooters how much fun they are missing out on, then you can see if they are dedicated enough to commit to that, and if they are safe. Then you just introduce them into shoot move and communicate and open up a whole new world to them.

    #47520
    Profile photo of Books
    The Librarian
    Participant

    Joe, I actually agree with you about 100%.

    I know you know this, but for the benefit of newer members. We at MVT have no expectation for complete agreement on such things. We do expect rational arguments to support your point of view.

    This is just to get ahead of possible false assumptions and appearances that can be made.

    A common thread between NCScout and Dodge is Sgt. Barry. What do you make of that?

    Off the top of my head without review, they tend to reinforce each others beliefs. This is not always the case as I can think of few occasions where Barry stepped too far out of line within their “groupthink.”

    When a perceived attack on the facts/beliefs of one by an “outsider” is when you tend to see them close ranks to support one another.

    A full time job could be made on the analysis of the unique interactions between WRSA, it’s principle commenter’s, and peripheral associated Blogs.

    Would make for an interesting dissertation for someones doctorate. ;-)

    I did say “about 100%”. ;-)

    You were just verbalizing some conclusions I had been evaluating. You know there is just more bad information and nasty characters out there than good, sometimes it is a very daunting task.

    I think discernment is the order of the day.

    Georgia - RS/CTT-8/16

    #47524
    Profile photo of Joe (G.W.N.S.)
    Joe (G.W.N.S.)
    Moderator

    I think discernment is the order of the day.

    :good:

    #47525
    Profile photo of Max Velocity
    Max
    Keymaster

    ‘Tactical Enthusiast’

    Anyone got anything better. Trying to work the narrative here.

    #47526
    Profile photo of Mountain Mom
    gramma
    Participant

    Perhaps a glimmer of good feedback?

    I reached out my minutemen about the upcoming training opportunities. One replied, that several of his group had already been to MVT training. Another is out of vacation time, but is looking forward to the spring schedule.

    Thinking about this thread overnight – I came to the same conclusion that Ivarr stated: this “training mindset” is more a way of life.

    Like all major life changes, most people work their way into them gradually – and there are valid reasons why. Sometimes, life changes all by itself on you… and you have to start over building what your new life is based on. Sometimes that happens when people wake up; sometimes they put themselves back to sleep.

    From my perspective – sifting through the noise that’s called news, people’s reactions, etc – I’m pretty sure I’d much rather train before the training becomes absolutely necessary to survive. To choose that lifestyle before it becomes essential to live it.

    The time and opportunity to do that is rapidly decreasing. Perhaps that’s the message that needs to be conveyed. Not bluntly, of course. Appeal to people’s intuition about these things; many are aware – but simply are paralyzed about choosing a path forward… and they aren’t ready to risk the “stigma” of being misperceived by the clueless – yet.

    #47528
    Profile photo of tango
    tango
    Participant

    Tactical Enthusiast? Troopers?

    @gramma is getting after it! Hell yeah!

    I see no evidence that “courting” people into training works. What did Einstein say about doing the same thing over and over again…

    So, I’ve attempted to find teammates from within the local outdoor adventure crowd, the Crossfitters, the gun-nutz, close friends…I wonder…maybe the LBGT crowd?

    You two are prime examples of:

    Rather than discussing what can go wrong, bad, or difficult, why don’t yall focus on your best chance at success and start talking about that? Patience and discipline are going to be a big factor. If you’re failing, consider taking a look back at yourself.

    If what you’re doing is not working…then don’t do it anymore. Try something else. You already know doing the same thing over and over again is insanity…so why are you doing it?

    Believe it or not, the fact that you’re both frustrated with the current situation is a great sign that you have been putting in effort. Failure at attempt #1, #2, #3, #4, and #5 does not mean failure in total. It means you have 5 experiences to build into success at attempt #6. Giving in to the temptation of sarcasm and smart-ass retorts is not only sabotaging yourself but your entire image and purpose.

    You’re obviously both passionate. Retool your approach, strap on your discipline boots, quit complaining, and figure out how to adapt your tactics to the condition of the battlefield.

    I applaud your enthusiasm Tango!

    So how many have you brought into your team?

    I would not call it “my team.” I have met locals that have been gracious enough to invite me to spend some time with them (training and otherwise). Beyond that, quite a few states on the east coast contain at least 1 person I could trust, many MVT alumnni. All of them I do maintain semi-regular meatspace interactions with.

    Baptême du feu
    L'appel du vide

    #47535
    Profile photo of WTL
    veritas556
    Participant

    @tango It’s as if you didn’t read my post at all. I offered up a different approach – based on the current stuff not working well enough – one you can disagree with but I’m not wasting my time trying to “date” other dudes to woo them into a Team as some are suggesting. If growing a pair and tactfully telling/selling the truth to people about what’s going on around them in order that they might DO something about their personal safety is not your cup of tea, fine. But I’m going to give it a try.

    Tango wrote:
    You’re obviously both passionate. Retool your approach, strap on your discipline boots, quit complaining, and figure out how to adapt your tactics to the condition of the battlefield.

    You might as well have just told me, “now go get your fuck*n shine box”. Retool my approach, indeed.

    #47536
    Profile photo of wheelsee
    wheelsee
    Participant

    Pops was a EE (electrical engineer) who designed and built nuclear power plants. Always told the story of Thomas Edison – on the 1,000th failure (of making light-bulb), someone commented “you’re not learning”. Edison’s reply was reported as being, “I can tell you 1,000 ways you can’t make a light bulb”….succeeded shortly afterwards.

    Which is heavier - a soldier's pack or a slave's chains? Napoleon

    Strength, Honor. Maximus (Gladiator)

    If you tolerate evil, you yourself are evil.
    Col Hugo Martinez, Commander Search Bloc

    William, in The Republic - CRS/CTT 2017, HEAT 2/CQB/FonF 2018, DCH 2018

    #47555
    Profile photo of tango
    tango
    Participant

    @veritas556

    I’m walking a fine line of trying not to violate your trust, so I hope you are able to realize what has just happened and not take this the wrong way. I just used your own direct approach, “chink in the armor”, “Red Pill”, to try and appeal to you. The reaction generated from you was almost immediate (~1hr), defensive, and non-receptive.

    Page 2:

    Regardless of how “right” you are, you will be met with resistance simply out of self defense, spite, pride, etc. That becomes intimidating and overwhelming – counter to what @johnnymac is saying.

    The best approach is the one that gets the other person to take their armor off for you. You should never be trying to breach someone’s walls, fight against their armor, or beat them in any way. It’s a process.

    Communicating is not a whole lot different than the tactics we use to fight eachother. The multiple people espousing the same techniques and having success are not leading you the wrong way. @Robert @lowdown3 has been running a business with people like us as customers for years. Think he knows a thing or two about how to appeal to us? @johnnymac is having great success running the Forum Fitness Challenge and making networking happen in his neck of the woods. @gramma is out here making friends in her back yard, thinking through her approach, practicing some good communication, and even working MVT into the mix. @wheelsee is over here recognizing the tactics others are using around him, rewarding those who do it right, and looking rather patient.

    Again, hope you don’t take it the wrong way. We’re all here trying to help the group succeed.

    Baptême du feu
    L'appel du vide

    #47567
    Profile photo of Mountain Mom
    gramma
    Participant

    Well, I can say I have people mapping the driving time to Romney at this point. And the opportunity has opened a channel to something. They are hungry; I’m going to feed it. I hope y’all got my back on this. I’m winging it. (They were already hungry; I just gave them what they wanted — and what Max is trying to give them.) They’re generating their own drive to get here at this point. I’ll continue to monitor.

    #47573
    Profile photo of WTL
    veritas556
    Participant

    @tango You like to debate. I get it. Me too. But I hope I don’t violate your trust when I tell you, “your argument sucks”. Logically speaking of course ;) You attacked my argument with insults. Ad hominem. Without asking me – gee, Veritas, what do you mean by educating people about the “Red Pill”?

    Yeah, I’m running around insulting people as if they are 90 IQ morons… ie: the world is flat, the gov’t demo’d the Trade Centers and Michelle Obama is really a man. Please. I won’t waste my fingertips explaining the VAST amount of data, historical evidence and epochal momentum for the logical, reasoned conclusions I’ve made, to you. Yet these things I’m well versed in I employ cautiously to those who may have an intellectual opening. Intellectual amateurs and miscreants miss the subtlety. Always.

    On another note of logic and reason – one doesn’t prove his argument by assailing opposing arguments. Valid arguments are self evident. Write that down. Yeah, kinda condescending but stick with me…

    I feel so high schooley and bitchy now. Thanks, Tango. But if a man slaps you, you’re getting a straight hand right back. Metaphorically speaking of course ;)

    Lastly, does anyone here (you included) have a local, meaningful, CUTT of even 4? I’m thankful for anyone that expends real effort at expanding the cause of rightful liberty but if you can’t call a Friday meeting (last minute) and have 4+ trained, team members show up in one hour…. you fail. Yes, standards. Reality is a B!tch. Hey I’m not perfect, I have only 2. Close to 3. Not good enough.

    People play the “slow and patient” BS to make themselves feel better about not meeting real world goals. There’s always more time right? BS. Time is not your friend, it’s going to kill you. (pour a drink and think about that for at least 30 minutes) Take a chance. Upset the apple cart. Try something different. Appeal to people’s most basic needs. Or not.

    You are free to do you. Be nice. Kiss ass. Work the long game. Die alone or more horribly with “buddy shooters”. Not me. I’m sure you won’t be adding me to your Xmas card list this year but you know what… I’m not here to make you my friend. I tell it like I see it and I expect nothing less from you. But tell me all abut your successes in building a CUTT…?

    #warriorup

    #47574
    Profile photo of WTL
    veritas556
    Participant

    For clarity… for everyone reading this… not trying to pick a fight. Just trying to pick some thought…

    #47575
    Profile photo of Joe (G.W.N.S.)
    Joe (G.W.N.S.)
    Moderator

    Again, hope you don’t take it the wrong way. We’re all here trying to help the group succeed.

    For clarity… for everyone reading this… not trying to pick a fight. Just trying to pick some thought…

    Passionate opinions are great!

    No moderation involved in this post, just a friendly reminder we’re better than other forums. ;-)

    Both your views will carry more weight when you can field eight members IMHO. Though battle buddy plus is certainly above average.

    Keep up your efforts. :good:

    #47579
    Profile photo of Ivarr Bergmann
    Ivarr Bergmann
    Participant

    Ivarr Bergmann wrote:
    Training has to be who you are and what you’re about. Its not a hobby or back burner interest like most want to pretend it is. Its a way of life. Finding the same dedication and absolute resolve in another person is nearly next to impossible to find. 99.9999% will sell you a good line when it comes time to meet up but they never deliver and will fade and vanish along the way when they realize its actually work..

    To be abundantly clear, what I’m advocating amounts to essentially marketing yourself – be the type of person that attracts the type of attention you’re looking for. This requires unmitigated daily discipline in all things and is in art in itself. It goes far beyond wearing the t-shirt. Do this for long enough and you will notice the right type of people present themselves.

    Compound this affect by putting yourself in the right places as @Robert @lowdown3 suggests. Become more efficient by focusing your efforts where they are most likely to produce results. When you’re starting out there’s little sense in spending energy trying to get the lowest guy on the totem pole up one rung while the top guy is 15 steps ahead.

    Compound this affect even further by taking @johnnymac‘s advice. Remain observant of the people you attract and their body language. Use your understanding of psychology to tailor your approach for maximum affect. Intimidation does not sell things – making people comfortable does. Work your smooth flank approach!

    If you want to practice this for an entire week under stress with a dozen other people take Combat Leader Course.

    What I am ABSOLUTELY NOT ADVOCATING here is walking around observing people and constantly judging them against a checklist and then writing them off once they miss a check-mark. Many people have value, you just need to find it and help guide them to the right position to make the most of it.

    This post is of course a complete simplification and overview of the entire concept glossing over a lot of nuance.

    *Disclaimer: At no point do I proclaim to be a master at this. Understanding the concept and mastering the art are two completely different things.

    Yall in Texas, Idaho, and Missouri are doing a damn fine job based on the content I’ve seen. It’s a big goal of mine to make it out to one of those events some day and meet you guys. :good:

    What your suggesting is controlling what others think and how they react to cerebral bait stimuli.. Ask any advertising executive or street cop-Ppl are attracted to all sorts of bait for all sorts of reason. Its impossible to predict what you get even with a fine tailored target audience…

    As for check list, well have at that. When you don’t observe and make a check list you end up getting hooked up with assholes that get you in interviews with the FBI and ATF.. What you get when you don’t ask questions and observe the results of questioning is that 3am kick in your door because the guy you didn’t vet good enough had fertilizer bombs in is shed out back.. So go in it blind and see what happens. Ive seen it, you wont like it trust me. Not everyone has worth. Some are an epic waste of time or just total pieces of shit..

    Ivarr

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    #47596
    Profile photo of Robert
    Robert
    Participant

    I try not to talk “concrete” a lot online about my experiences with groups over the years, so let’s assume this is all theoretical- 3 decades (no BS) of group interaction.

    1. People have to want to do it themselves. You can’t do it for them.

    As a leader we want to motivate people and group success largely rests on our shoulders- at least from the common thinking and the outside view. I’ve been in groups (actually kinda the same group that morphed over 3 decades).

    Yet people truly have to be motivated themselves, it HAS to come from within. Just as you can’t PT for someone else, they have to make the decision to either sit on their ass eating boxes of Ho Hos and making lists or get out and PT.

    This is a hard one for most of us that are “a” personality types, because ultimately we want to succeed, and we want to be able to shape and control so much of that.

    This isn’t the military folks, this is the civilian world, and people have to be approached a different way, group discipline has to be handled different ways, etc. Too often we assume and use military rules, doctrine, planning etc. that is foreign to civilians. I mean shit folks, we are frickin irregulars after all :good: LOL.

    Bottom line on #1- individuals have to WANT it enough themselves. That means more than just wanting it for “super fun time” activities.
    Back in the long, long ago, training in Central Florida one weekend every month, we would average 12-30 people out to train (in the 80’s and early 90’s). Damn if summer time it wouldn’t drop off, and it would be a “core” of maybe 6-8 of us that would be there in the suck. But if a fun river/Scuba outing was called during the summer, the numbers would double over night. Why? Because we had a lot of MF’ers that were just in it for super fun time stuff.

    Summer soldiers and sunshine patriots”- only in this case they avoided the summer cause it was Florida!!!

    Yet throughout all this, some of the guys in the group were all about NUMBERS. “Filling shirts” we used to jokingly call it. WHY? So some ass tard that came once or twice would get a general idea where we trained, catch a few names and come off with generally a wrong idea about what everything was about? I was young, 19-20’ish at the time and I even knew that wasn’t the best way of going about it.

    2. People will make time for what’s truly important to them.

    Flash forward a few decades. A now older, not so much wiser me is helping some newer guys get started. Some of you are talking about meeting like minded folks. These were people I had interacted with numerous times in a related activity, but guess what, I keep my mouth shut in the outside world about my other life. I saw some “signs” that led me to believe one or two guys were trying to do similar things. They would openly drop key words, almost looking for reaction. I would just smile. After a few years of getting to know them I put a few more cards on the table after I was able to ascertain most were not idiots that were going to do something that got them 25 years in a cell with Bubba. They were totally floored and surprised I was not only “into” this sort of thing but the depth- they know about 40% :) I’m kind of a private guy:)

    Anywhoo, so I start these “young bucks” cause the worm has turned now and for the first time in a group setting, I’M the old guy LOL. I provided training, a venue, gear at cost, etc. Their was only a handful of times when people would show up remotely on time, many would leave early (on a single day training event neverthedamnless), one constantly showed up without half the ammo needed (which wasn’t much really). I would spend half the day the day prior prepping training materials, the range, etc. to get cancellations late that night or early the next morning. This would be the place to point out their was zero cost to them in doing this..

    So all this to say, their is a real danger in MAKING THINGS TOO EASY.

    Also, you have to watch to see if talk/actions match up. One guy told me “man I can’t wait to train again, I’m in training mode.” The reality was he was in NEUTRAL mode as he had missed the last several and immediately missed the one right after his “training mode” talk. I will add in that all of these folks were not list making “preppers” but were folks that all have achieved some good things in a related endeavor. For OPSEC reasons I won’t say won’t but suffice to say it fits with the “look at crossfit and marathon type people” comments above. In other words, these weren’t 500lb. list making nothing doing slugs.

    3. You have to require something out of people.

    Oh boy, here’s the big on Wheezy!! No I’m not talking about high dollars, but you do need to cover costs of training materials, etc. Don’t even think about “dues” this isn’t the frickin Boy Scouts or that national thing where the guy milks “dues” out of patriots.

    But you HAVE to expect and get something back. The concept is called reciprocity and it can be anything from a hand helping cut trees at the range, $10. towards costs of targets or supplies for the medic that just taught a Combat lifesaver class, etc. Basically everything in life costs. To quote one of my favorite lines from Godfather- “after all, none of us are communists.” Supplies cost, if someone is too cheap to kick in on them, they are not worth your time. If someone questions the concept of kicking in, IMO they are going to be a problem cause they are cheap asses that don’t value the training.

    These things can’t really be rushed. Every bad example of a bad teammate I can think of over 31 years was someone that we “rushed” with- every single one.

    Finally, don’t take everything at face value. I will tell you about the “ex Ranger” that joined us in the late 80’s for a couple outings then moved up north. We hooked up with him a couple times in the 90’s and by that time- having some years of training under the belt- we could see some things that just weren’t right. Later he asks can he bring some people from his (online) group to a private gathering. He didn’t mention they were just online friends. I went through the “sure man if you can vouch for them” deal and he proceeded to tell me how he had known them for so long. Night 1 of the campout sitting around a campfire one of the guys- who was from Texas, half the country away from both the rest of us and my “ranger” buddy- mentions that he had just met my “ranger” buddy in person THAT DAY. WTFF over? You “vouch” for someone you’ve never met in person?? I think of vouching for someone as in Donny Brasco type “vouching” for. Well, over time it becomes clear that our “ranger” buddy can’t seem to hit a target at 100 yards, doesn’t know basic tactics, etc. A friend does some digging and we find out he was “hit by a jeep” during his first weeks of basic training and got discharged after that….. So just because someone comes in with (supposed) military creds, doesn’t truly mean crap until you see him in action. A very boisterous young guy that was “10th Mountain” couldn’t hit a target at 50 yards and walked by four out of four targets on a jungle lane without spotting them.

    In other words, don’t take anyone at full value until seeing/verifying everything. I have nothing but the utmost respect for veterans and these guys that are full of shit and claiming that when they are not need to be choked out IMO.

    Also as Max and others have stated before, their is so much disparity between what people do in the military, you cannot assume that just because someone was in the military that they will have a grasp of certain skills.

    Finally (I know I said that above LOL), people should NOT be motivated simply out of fear. Fear is only usually a short term motivator. All these guys that are constantly spouting conspiracy shit and throwing dates around for when they think SHTF, rarely are good long term candidates for groups. They tend to burn out quickly. You want even keel types that will make it long term. Just look at the pre-election response and the post election response if you don’t believe this. Places are damn near giving away guns that brought several hundred more when the specter of hitlary becoming prez was near. Fear isn’t a long term motivator for most people.

    Sorry so long, got to rambling but hopefully the stories helped with what I was trying to convey.

    www.jrhenterprises.com
    RMP, TC3, NODF, CRCD 6/14, CP 9/14. NODF, Land Nav, 6/15. Rifleman Challenge 9/15- Vanguard. FOFtactics 3/16, 10/16, 11/16, 6/17,11/17 CTT, 6/15, 11/16, , LRMC-1 9/17 GA Mobile CTT and DA 10/16, GA mobile DCH 3/18, HEAT1 3/18 Alum weekend 8/18, Opfor CLC 10/18, DA 11/18 CQBC 12/18

    #47602
    Profile photo of JohnnyMac
    JohnnyMac
    Participant

    @Robert and I are definitely on the same page. I’m just going to jump to what I actually do, and it all fits in with what Robert is saying.

    I take a “follow me” approach. I have a training plan, whether that’s range time, gym time, outdoors time, etc. I invite people along, all the way from someone who’s never shot a firearm to MVT alumni. In general, they’re all people I’ve met in real life. That is probably why I’ve never had some of the experiences Robert mentions.

    Whoever joins me, joins me. I’m upfront if there’s going to be any costs involved. It’s usually just, “bring money to cover the range fee and ammo.” What if no one is in? Yeah, I still go about my merry way. I also share my experience with those who couldn’t make it, sending them a text or mentioning it the next time I see them. It’s 90% just being friendly, but 5% proving I do what I say and 5% “look what you missed out on.” Eventually a pattern forms, some dudes are pretty consistently in, some dudes are consistently out. Either way, it’s “that sucks you can’t join me/us, I’ll hit you up next time” I’ll try to coordinate schedules with the guys who are consistently in, even it’s a detriment to my personal schedule. The idea here is frith. Make yourself a helpful resource and make yourself available. I would say, it’s fundamentally showing people you’re willing to go out your way. Should someone show a pattern of not reciprocating, throttle down with that person, but don’t burn any bridges unless the person is a real shitty person.

    Seems to work for me. :unsure:

    #47613
    Profile photo of
    Anonymous

    Lastly, does anyone here (you included) have a local, meaningful, CUTT of even 4?

    Yes, we do. We have more than four, in fact. We met through this very forum.

    #47673
    Profile photo of tango
    tango
    Participant

    Veritas, what do you mean by educating people about the “Red Pill”?

    @veritas556 You’re right. I’ll agree to that. If you are still up to it and have an example approach you wouldn’t mind typing up I’m sure the guys wouldn’t mind providing some feedback. I will keep my comments to myself. (this is 0% sarcasm, not a trap)

    Evidence of networking from today attached. @odinswulf @tnmichael

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    Baptême du feu
    L'appel du vide

    #47676
    Profile photo of Max Velocity
    Max
    Keymaster

    Have you guys seen the TacGun concept? Are you rolling with it?

    #47698
    Profile photo of D Close
    D Close
    Moderator

    Also consider that my own demographic, 45-55, is moving to or is already in the “staff” phase of our life cycle. Yes we can do it, but maybe a better investment in addition to our sustainment training is sponsoring (tactical welfare) a younger bunch to come train? I’ve done that with my own son and eventually my daughter. I have great candidates in my son’s friends who enjoy the physical challenge and the tough guy with a gun image but aren’t excited about joining the military for a four year hitch. Being retired military, I can’t blame them too much right now. Pick the guys who are centered locally. I will be loaning my own gear to these guys. Yes, a $500-$900 scholarship is a little rich for me but it can be done and this is a cause worth supporting. Look for Dev (alumni) and his buddy to show up in the next few months. I wish it was cheaper and easier to train but Max gives us a great deal as it is. We should do our part for those able bodies with a good mindset who just don’t have the $ching just yet.

    The only easy day was yesterday

    #47699
    Profile photo of Max Velocity
    Max
    Keymaster

    @D Close: you are brilliant. This is what I am thinking, probably needs finessing:

    Offering sponsorship discounts for training @ 20% of class price (not including UTM ammo costs) for 25 or under. These would be sponsored by current alumni. They do not need to be related to that alumni, but there needs to be a geographic and personal relationship such that they are CUTT members of that alumni.

    Also, I will do this if it is done as a TacGun scholarship and the TacGun narrative is pushed. They are coming for the character building TacGun experience.

    Feedback?

    #47700
    Profile photo of WTL
    veritas556
    Participant

    @tango et al. I’ve come to the conclusion there is nothing to be gained or learned from engaging online in these types of conversations. Perhaps my passion is misplaced…

    #47702
    Profile photo of Max Velocity
    Max
    Keymaster

    @veritas566 @tango ok moving swiftly on. 2 things have now been put out there:

    1) TacGun

    2) TacGun Sponsorship.

    Are we doing this?

    #47703
    Profile photo of wheelsee
    wheelsee
    Participant

    Agree with D Close. My body just won’t do what it used to as a 20-something but my finances are in much better shape.

    I did this with my SIL and daughter and learned something – now I offer to reimburse them for expenses. This keeps their skin in the game and allows me to use my resources in assisting their learning process without being burned.

    Which is heavier - a soldier's pack or a slave's chains? Napoleon

    Strength, Honor. Maximus (Gladiator)

    If you tolerate evil, you yourself are evil.
    Col Hugo Martinez, Commander Search Bloc

    William, in The Republic - CRS/CTT 2017, HEAT 2/CQB/FonF 2018, DCH 2018

    #47706
    Profile photo of WTL
    veritas556
    Participant

    @Max

    @veritas566 @tango ok moving swiftly on. 2 things have now been put out there:

    1) TacGun

    2) TacGun Sponsorship.

    Are we doing this?

    Are you asking if I think this is a good idea or if I plan to adopt this Tacgun narrative in talking about training at MVT?

    #47707
    Profile photo of Max Velocity
    Max
    Keymaster

    If you plan on adopting it. I need feedback from not only you, but everyone.

    MVT has already adopted it. Will alumni / forum members?

    To me, this is very interesting, because as has been noted before, us ‘Liberty Types’ are not good at getting on board a cause. We prefer to bicker and bump egos.

    This is my attempt, with the aim of pushing the TacGun culture and ultimately expanding what we do, and your ability to build a CUTT.

    Also, this latest response may have drowned out my response to D Close regarding TacGun Sponsorship.

    Can we get on board? That is the question.

    #47709
    Profile photo of WTL
    veritas556
    Participant

    Just so happen to have a meeting tomorrow for a discussion amongst our local training group. 10 guys or so. Only I have attended MVT with 1-2 others seriously interested. I’ll focus group the concept with them. Outside perspective is useful.

    #47710
    Profile photo of Max Velocity
    Max
    Keymaster

    Is ‘focus group’ the right approach? You are the only MVT alumni, so why not just roll TacGun right out there. That is the concept here. It is hard enough to get guys here to grasp the concept, what about non-alumni? The idea is that TacGun is not overthought, overanalyzed, but just is. A train thay people want to get on.
    I would suggest rather than analyzing what TacGun is and whther or not it is a good idea, simply run with it, and expound the listed benefits (in the TacGun post) of training. This is not doomsday training, but benefits personal and professional for the here and now. This is better than 3Gun and GoRuck, better than CrossFit. This is TacGun, holistic training for the armed citizen.

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