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Thunder / Flashbang?

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This topic contains 34 replies, has 14 voices, and was last updated by Profile photo of arealcorker arealcorker 5 months, 4 weeks ago.

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  • #61533
    Profile photo of Max Velocity
    Max
    Keymaster

    Anyone know of a resource for a legitimate banger that cna be used for simulation for the Max Talk videos, and also maybe later on be used as banger on classes etc?

    I see the CO2 stuff and it is crap. Looking for a bang and a bit of smoke, but nothing to get ATF on my ass!

    Is the Enola Gaye Thunderflash the best option?

    If you have video, post it. Thanks!

    #61534
    Profile photo of Max Velocity
    Max
    Keymaster

    Not tannerite…this needs to be person initiated in relatively close proximity. A military thunderflash would be the equivalent.

    #61535
    Profile photo of Joe (G.W.N.S.)
    Joe (G.W.N.S.)
    Moderator

    I believe the current gold standard is the Royal Arms FBG-MK3.

    FBG-MK3 NFDD FLASH BANG TRAINER

    $299.00

    FBG-MKIII

    The new FBG-MkIII received a major overhaul; all aspects have been redesigned and engineered to withstand the most hostile environments. Based on our Popular FBG-MkII we listened to many top level operators and realized what improvement could be made. We went back to the drawing board and spent countless hours researching and testing different materials in search of a more durable product. We consulted with several metallurgists to create a new more durable impact resistant heat-treated tool steel for our FBG-MkIII. In turn we increased the impact strength and abrasion resistance by more than 700% over the FBG-MkII. Furthermore we increased the structural integrity of every internal component in all the critical areas. The new chamber threads have been switched from a Metric fine thread to a Quick Lock Acme Stub that acts as a sealed breech upon assembly but allows the user to easily disassemble once initiated. The new acme thread has 300% more thread engagement yet screws together in half the amount of turns compared to the FBG-MkII

    Description: The FBG3 is a Revolutionary Impact Detonated Flash Bang Training Device which creates 175dB, 4psi of over pressure and 500K CP. The FBG3 Flash Bang was designed to provide realistic training at a low cost per bang.

    History/Background: The Impact Flash Bang was developed to overcome the shortcomings of traditional M201 Fuse type. Standard M201 fuse type Flash Bangs have a delay of 1.5sec +/- .03 seconds, which creates uncertainty where the flash bang will detonate (anywhere from 1.2 – 1.8 sec).

    Our Impact Flash Bang (FBG3) solves all of the problem associated with traditional M201 fuse type Flash Bangs. Our Impact Flash Bangs are not a time delay they are detonated where they strike. The operator can deploy against a Wall, Window, Slider, Car door, Car Window, Second Story, ceiling wall couch or any other object they strike. Our FBG3 is not an explosive, and will never take off like a rocket. Our FBG3 will not become so hot they start fires, they are cool to the touch upon initiation. With the FBG3 you will never have to worry about the fuse separating and injuring personnel. The FBG3 produces a loud bang with minimal smoke eliminating the operational hazard associated with smoke. The most important feature of the FBG3 is its ability to be serviced and re-loaded by the user.

    Potential Targets/Applications: Training Environments, New operator Inoculation, Individual Targets, Prison/Civil Rioters Training, Active Shooter Training, Animal Control/Conditioning. Other Training applications

    Primary Users: Law Enforcement, Military

    Incapacitation Mechanism/Technology: The FBG3 round creates 4psi of over pressure at 175dB and 500K CP brightness, producing controlled and directed impact ensures the safe deployment and use.

    Physical Data:
    A. Size: Length= 4 1/2 inch,
    B. Weight: 300 Grams (universal chamber
    C. Payload: 175dB, 4psi of over pressure and 500K CP brightness
    D. Power Requirements: None
    E. Delivery Means: Hand Held Thrown / Tossed

    FBG BANG PRIMER ADAPTOR uses 209 Primers for a 120 Db bang with little flash and no overpreasure.

    The important thing is these are reusable with either 12 ga blanks or 209 primers.

    Video of older MKII

    #61536
    Profile photo of Max Velocity
    Max
    Keymaster

    Lots of money for not much bang. Good product though. I want exterior bang simulators, not CQB flashbang trainers. Like IED style simulators.

    #61537
    Profile photo of Andrew
    Andrew
    Participant
    #61538
    Profile photo of Joe (G.W.N.S.)
    Joe (G.W.N.S.)
    Moderator

    What is the desired effect?

    A big bang with smoke?

    A flash, bang, and billowing cloud?

    Describe the look and I can narrow down some options! ;-)

    #61540
    Profile photo of Max Velocity
    Max
    Keymaster

    IED 1N MUNITION SIMULATOR

    http://uxoinfo.com/blogcfc/client/includes/uxopages/Mulvaney_Details.cfm?Ord_Id=Y34

    No idea what the cost is. Sorry.

    Thanks for that. I sent them an email. Also asking how their throwable grenade simulator compares to the Enola Gaye Mk5.

    Joe: This is the kind of thing I am looking for. The genesis is a Max Talk I am cooking up involving a casualty, to be initiated with the best explosion I can get. Has to be initiated by me on my own and then carry on with the action, so a throwable with a delay, or an electric det works. I already have my weighted target mannikin all dressed up and ready to be dragged. This will not happen this week (class), but maybe the following week.

    If I can get something as close as possible to the old arty sims (we called them thunderflashes in BrtiMil) then I can also use them to liven up training etc.

    So best bang (and smoke) is the priority. Tannerite would work if I shot way within safety distances (like 10 yards) but they have all sports of weirdness about commercial use etc. So tannerite levels of explosion at close range would be optimal. I’m trying to blow myself up. :yahoo:

    #61541
    Profile photo of JustARandomGuy
    JustARandomGuy
    Participant

    Not sure these would have enough “punch” for an IED sim, but may be fun to have for CQB/”bunker clearing” props.
    Obviously the bigger ones are louder, and there’s also a sound difference between the “flash” and “bang” options…

    https://www.enolagaye.com/product-category/thunderflashes/

    You are correct on the C02 options- they are very unreliable, and not really that loud either.

    As far as tannerite goes…it does still have a “kinetic” blast radius, ie, it will pick up and throw things. The potential for folks having a bit more realistic IED experience than they’d like is still there.
    Perhaps I’m biased, but I’ve just seen way to many people do way to much retarded shit with it, to ever want to be associated with it business wise… :unsure:

    "Time come Kimosabe, when good men must wear masks."
    ~Tanto

    #61542
    Profile photo of Joe (G.W.N.S.)
    Joe (G.W.N.S.)
    Moderator

    I see what I can find.

    Back in the “day” we used to find the U.S. Version electrically fired artillery simulators in Army/Navy Surplus stores, fun stuff for a teenager! Amazed I survived my youth.

    How much demolitions experience do you have? ;-)

    There maybe some improvised options available using black powder/pyrodex.

    Not sure about WV right now, but many states don’t have laws restricting muzzle loaded cannon/mortars. A vertically positioned mortar could have a large report, lots of smoke, yet direct most of the blast up.

    Anyway let’s see what I kind find “off the shelf” first! :yes:

    #61548
    Profile photo of JohnnyMac
    JohnnyMac
    Participant

    Like IED style simulators.

    I’ve looked into this. The best bet is probably a DIY pneumatic simulator. Third party sourced are crazy money: https://explotrain.com/product/xp-870/

    The other option is of a pyrotechnic nature. There’s a difference, law-wise, between pyrotechnics for personal use, and ones for professional use. Even still, a basic pyrotechnic cert. is pretty easy.

    #61549
    Profile photo of Joe (G.W.N.S.)
    Joe (G.W.N.S.)
    Moderator

    I think the biggest bang for the buck (literally) is going to be a Thunder Mug signal mortar. Most places it just considered a black powder firearm even when firing a a signal charge.

    Use an electrical ignition for timing convenience. Hidden from view using a terrain feature.

    Several shots.

    Here is a video showing some variations in charge size, you could buy one, have one made, or diy.

    #61550
    Profile photo of Max Velocity
    Max
    Keymaster

    You guys are probably overthinking this. Why am I surprised? ;-)

    I have some EG Thunderflashes on order. We are talking week wednesday for the planned making of this parricular scenario. Obviously longer term we can look at solutions for training.

    #61551
    Profile photo of Joe (G.W.N.S.)
    Joe (G.W.N.S.)
    Moderator

    You guys are probably overthinking this.

    If you want…

    So tannerite levels of explosion at close range would be optimal.

    …it’s not happening with a glorified firecracker! :yes:

    :good:

    #61552
    Profile photo of Joe (G.W.N.S.)
    Joe (G.W.N.S.)
    Moderator

    8 INCH LARGER SIZED MUG
    $120

    8 Inch Larger Sized Mug, 2 inch bore.

    Takes 700+ gr of black powder

    Choice of cerakote, powder coat or hydro dipped. Please email or call for preference on finishes.

    From a review.

    What a blast, 1400 grains of black powder and day old biscuit. Do not shoot it near building it can break windows.

    #61553
    Profile photo of Trailman
    trailman
    Participant

    That blackpowder thinger would make a great IED type device. You can use model rocket igniters and a 9 volt to set it off. There is a place near Winchester or Middletown where you can get BP by the keg. At least with that device you won’t have flying debris as a safety factor it will all go up.

    CRM, CTT 1501, CP11/15, CTT5/16, FoF, DCH, CLC Opfor, Team Minion

    Just remember, Anne Frank was a criminal because the government made her one and she died because she broke the law.

    #61554
    Profile photo of Joe (G.W.N.S.)
    Joe (G.W.N.S.)
    Moderator

    You can use model rocket igniters and a 9 volt to set it off.

    For filming purposes I’d run my wires to improvised pressure switch so it goes off with you in frame when stepped on, with sufficient standoff of course.

    It would be visually impressive! ;-)

    #61555
    Profile photo of Andrew
    Andrew
    Participant

    Just don’t forget that Murphy is always waiting to make an appearance.

    #61556
    Profile photo of Joe (G.W.N.S.)
    Joe (G.W.N.S.)
    Moderator

    Just don’t forget that Murphy is always waiting to make an appearance.

    The good thing about black powder in such a directional use is its consistency.

    I would never get close to a tannerite charge.

    Most have seen this…

    #61557
    Profile photo of Joe (G.W.N.S.)
    Joe (G.W.N.S.)
    Moderator

    Of course this was beyond stupid.

    If you don’t understand safety regarding things that go boom, leave it alone.

    #61558
    Profile photo of Andrew
    Andrew
    Participant

    If you don’t understand safety regarding things that go boom, leave it alone.

    AMEN! :good:

    #61559
    Profile photo of Joe (G.W.N.S.)
    Joe (G.W.N.S.)
    Moderator

    It’s truly amazing the stupidity demonstrated on YouTube.

    Check out this “rocket scientist!”

    With kids near it too! :wacko:

    #61560
    Profile photo of wheelsee
    wheelsee
    Participant

    “put it IN the fridge”……. dumbass, when an explosive is surrounded by something rigid, it’s called a “BOMB” (in this case, a refrigerator bomb?)

    Which is heavier - a soldier's pack or a slave's chains? Napoleon

    Strength, Honor. Maximus (Gladiator)

    If you tolerate evil, you yourself are evil.
    Col Hugo Martinez, Commander Search Bloc

    William, in The Republic - CRS/CTT 2017, HEAT 2/CQB/FonF 2018, DCH 2018

    #61561
    Profile photo of Joe (G.W.N.S.)
    Joe (G.W.N.S.)
    Moderator

    “put it IN the fridge”……. dumbass, when an explosive is surrounded by something rigid, it’s called a “BOMB” (in this case, a refrigerator bomb?)

    Yes the only thing that saved disaster was the doors being the weak point on top and divine grace (or dumb luck if you prefer)!

    #61562
    Profile photo of Robert
    Robert
    Participant

    I see what I can find.

    Back in the “day” we used to find the U.S. Version electrically fired artillery simulators in Army/Navy Surplus stores, fun stuff for a teenager! Amazed I survived my youth.

    How much demolitions experience do you have? ;-)

    There maybe some improvised options available using black powder/pyrodex.

    Not sure about WV right now, but many states don’t have laws restricting muzzle loaded cannon/mortars. A vertically positioned mortar could have a large report, lots of smoke, yet direct most of the blast up.

    Anyway let’s see what I kind find “off the shelf” first! :yes:

    Did they call those “Hoffman Devices?” Looked like a really really big fire cracker?

    www.jrhenterprises.com
    RMP, TC3, NODF, CRCD 6/14, CP 9/14. NODF, Land Nav, 6/15. Rifleman Challenge 9/15- Vanguard. FOFtactics 3/16, 10/16, 11/16, 6/17,11/17 CTT, 6/15, 11/16, , LRMC-1 9/17 GA Mobile CTT and DA 10/16, GA mobile DCH 3/18, HEAT1 3/18 Alum weekend 8/18, Opfor CLC 10/18, DA 11/18 CQBC 12/18

    #61563
    Profile photo of Joe (G.W.N.S.)
    Joe (G.W.N.S.)
    Moderator

    I don’t remember right now, but I remember they were marked with what they were simulating, hence my fondness for 155mmm. ;-)

    #61566
    Profile photo of Abacus
    Abacus
    Participant

    I am a little foggy on what your exact requirements are, but If you want noise outdoors, look into those propane powered vortex cannons used to keep birds away from crops and airfields. They are loud, relatively safe, reusable, and ATF hassle free. There is no smoke though, and you probably would have to set them up off the actual range at your site given their size and need for a propane bottle. Perhaps putting one behind or off to the side of the lanes might work.

    I don’t know of you can command detonate them though. The ones they used back home just kind of went boom every so often as the gas in the combustion chamber hit the right fuel air mixture based on the propane flow rate. It’s been a while since I have seen one so they may have better smaller ones now.

    A portion of the typos in the above message might be my phone, the rest are just me.

    I have been wrong before...

    #61589
    Profile photo of First Sergeant
    First Sergeant
    Moderator

    Did they call those “Hoffman Devices?” Looked like a really really big fire cracker?

    No, a Hoffman Device is what is used to simulate tank main gun fire.

    The ones Joe and Max are talking about are artillery simulators. It is small, hand held made out of waxed cardboard with a pull string. It would whistle before it went off.

    The grenade sims worked the same way but no whistle.

    FILO
    Signal out, can you identify.
    Je ne regrette rien...
    Klagt Nicht, Kämpft

    #61590
    Profile photo of Roadkill
    Roadkill
    Participant

    Max if you want one of these little cannon mortar thingeys I can make you one or two no charge. I won’t have time to do it this week for class but I’ll see what I can do. I’m the one bringing the 32” gong for the 1000 yard range, so you know a little of what I’m capable of. This is a pic of one I just pulled out of the shop, I guess I could have it this week. It’s got a 2” bore, and is 3 1/2” x 11 1/2” long. I still have to drill the fuse hole, but if you want it I’ll bring it Thursday. I’ll weld a heavy base plate for stability.

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    #61593
    Profile photo of Robert
    Robert
    Participant

    For some reason I remember someone calling them a “hoffman device” but they probably didn’t really WTH it was called. It sounds exactly like what Joe described.

    On the black power deals- had a friend 100 years ago that did Civil War reenactments. He made up these “smudge pots” (his term I guess) that was a short piece of iron pipe open on one end, that he poured concrete around inside a little 1 gallon pail. He used solar igniters to fire it off. Someone asked him about the whole contraption and he claimed it was legit because the black powder was not contained?? But what he had looks just like those items in the pics and videos you guys posted. Assuming it’s legal because the black powder is not contained??

    www.jrhenterprises.com
    RMP, TC3, NODF, CRCD 6/14, CP 9/14. NODF, Land Nav, 6/15. Rifleman Challenge 9/15- Vanguard. FOFtactics 3/16, 10/16, 11/16, 6/17,11/17 CTT, 6/15, 11/16, , LRMC-1 9/17 GA Mobile CTT and DA 10/16, GA mobile DCH 3/18, HEAT1 3/18 Alum weekend 8/18, Opfor CLC 10/18, DA 11/18 CQBC 12/18

    #61599
    Profile photo of Billy
    Billy
    Participant

    These are also Co2 powered only run like 20-30 bucks i believe
    https://www.evike.com/products/34417/

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