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Touniquet Practice… Is it safe?

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This topic contains 9 replies, has 6 voices, and was last updated by Profile photo of Robert Robert 1 day, 19 hours ago.

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  • #17209
    Profile photo of Max Velocity
    Max
    Keymaster

    Simple question that will probably result in a complicated answer. Can you practice applying a tourniquet? If you apply it either to yourself or others for a short amount of time enough to stop the pulse, are there medical considerations the would make this unsafe? Things to be aware of? If you have a severe head wound, do you go high and tight on the neck? JK on that one. Thanks in advance for the responses.

    #17211
    Profile photo of Max Velocity
    Max
    Keymaster

    (In my opinion), yes you can apply a TQ for a short period of time. Don’t go too tight, wrench the crap out of them, and don’t go too high (right up in the armpit, for example), or there could be nerve damage (says a Dr. to me….). But stopping the pulse for short time is fine. Will get painful though. In training, we used to cinch them down so you knew you had one on, no messing about.
    If any Dr’s know better,, please chime in, and this is not legal or medical advice, and I am not a Dr., so don’t listen to anything I say…

    #17213
    Profile photo of Max Velocity
    Max
    Keymaster

    I would agree, we practice in our EMT class by putting them on and stopping a pulse for short time and no more twice on same patient. figure nothing more than BP cuff which cuts off a pulse for short time. ask around you can always find someone in your neighborhood to play the patient. you never know asking for patients for pulse, BP, Airway, TQ, bleeding control could be a doorway to another likeminded person.

    #17214
    Profile photo of Max Velocity
    Max
    Keymaster

    But Max Velocity told me to do it…

    Thanks guys!

    #17227
    Profile photo of DuaneH
    DuaneH
    Participant

    Safe. (actually like anything else including walking, there is minute chance of Bad Things happening)
    As long as you follow the above advice. Don’t torque it any tighter than needed to. Not too high and tight on the upper limbs (brachial plexus http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Gray808.png)
    .
    We practice all the time on each other.
    .
    Not advisable on the neck. Though I have seen it done, it wasn’t for strictly medical reasons.

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    #17235
    Profile photo of Pierce, B
    whitebear620
    Participant

    Not exactly a scientific reason, but the army medic school does it all the way when we practice, at least they did when I was there in 2010.
    I’ve put one on myself lots of times, mostly to demonstrate to others how tight it needs to be. I also did Great American Teach-In for two years and I put it on for the kids, hope to God that they listened to me when I said “don’t try this at home”. B-)
    One thing, I find that it is a little painful upon removal, I would go slow on releasing the pressure, was told you can pass out if you do it too fast.

    #64674
    Profile photo of wheelsee
    wheelsee
    Participant

    This (dated 4/2017) seems to encourage doing it right to begin with and to be able to check if doing it right (tight enough).

    Do you use a Doppler for Bleeding Control Training?

    So my answer is yes, TIGHT!! STOP THE BLEED!

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    #64681
    Profile photo of Roadkill
    Roadkill
    Participant

    I don’t know if this will matter but I’ll throw it out there. I’m invloved in teaching hand to hand skills. One of the go to many go to moves is the rear naked choke, which everyone knows. In our classes we won’t apply this to anyone over 40 years old.(a full choke out) the fear with elders is hardened arteries and the possibility of breaking plaque loose causing obvious complications. Would this be a worry on applying TQs on elders on limbs? I don’t know I’m just throwing it out there. The choke thing I learned years ago; is that even a concern? We’ve been doing it so long it seems doctrinal to us now, but I’m not really sure on the science. It just seems like a good idea.

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    #64682
    Profile photo of wheelsee
    wheelsee
    Participant

    In our classes we won’t apply this to anyone over 40 years old.(a full choke out) the fear with elders is hardened arteries and the possibility of breaking plaque loose causing obvious complications. Would this be a worry on applying TQs on elders on limbs? I don’t know I’m just throwing it out there. The choke thing I learned years ago; is that even a concern? We’ve been doing it so long it seems doctrinal to us now, but I’m not really sure on the science. It just seems like a good idea.

    :unsure:

    Good question- I don’t know the answer. Remember that the vast majority of studies coming out of the military are using healthy subjects without underlying comorbid conditions.

    Which is heavier - a soldier's pack or a slave's chains? Napoleon

    Strength, Honor. Maximus (Gladiator)

    If you tolerate evil, you yourself are evil.
    Col Hugo Martinez, Commander Search Bloc

    William, in The Republic - CRS/CTT 2017, HEAT 2/CQB/FonF 2018, DCH 2018

    #64687
    Profile photo of Robert
    Robert
    Participant

    I don’t know if this will matter but I’ll throw it out there. I’m invloved in teaching hand to hand skills. One of the go to many go to moves is the rear naked choke, which everyone knows. In our classes we won’t apply this to anyone over 40 years old.(a full choke out) the fear with elders is hardened arteries and the possibility of breaking plaque loose causing obvious complications. Would this be a worry on applying TQs on elders on limbs? I don’t know I’m just throwing it out there. The choke thing I learned years ago; is that even a concern? We’ve been doing it so long it seems doctrinal to us now, but I’m not really sure on the science. It just seems like a good idea.

    Yeah, so I’ve heard that story also re: the RNC later killing the dude. I think as a general rule there was some outstanding circumstances there and I wouldn’t be overly concerned about that. And the dude might have totally went out before tapping (not really a good idea overall. When your caught your caught and even after a few months of combatives you know when your caught).

    Definitely good to teach and show people what really happens when someone goes out though. We have had some stupid stuff where obstinate types didn’t tap when they should have. One guy started snoring like a bear immediately- we totally thought he was joking around, then I noticed his body relaxed and yelled at the guy to release him. One time I was passing guard and the other instructor had a choke- I thought for sure once I got past I would be safe due to the angle. I fell over mid way through the pass and I woke up laughing. “Damn I went out didn’t I?”

    I think like in any medical situation, there is the possibility of that one abnormal patient with just the right situation/circumstances.

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