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Last weekend we had a CRS class. One of the issues that keeps coming up is lube for your rifles.
One of the students was using a bio CLP. The bio means that it is supposed to be environmentally safe. More on that later.
There are several issues at play here. One is how thin this stuff was, one was how hard the rifle was being used, another was how hot it got that weekend and the other is CLP itself.
I could hear that his rifle needed lube. You can tell by the sound when the rifle cycles. He had already lubed it but this is where how thin it was and that it was CLP comes into play. The stuff was burning off almost as fast as he was lubing the rifle. You could see the smoke coming off of it when he fired. No, it wasn’t from the rounds being fired. I am pretty sure I know the difference.
If he had just been out at the range shooting three or four mags he may not have had any issues. But he was running the rifle hard. Combine that with the daytime temps and you will start to have issues.
Now about CLP. It stands for Cleaner, Lubricant, Preservative. The Army has used it for years. You use it to do all threes things listed. It works OK. It does all three things, it just doesn’t do any of them well. I used it for years because I didn’t know any better and it was free. If it’s all I had I wouldn’t have a problem using it, I would just make sure I a had a good supply of it because when the rifle gets hot it burns off, contrary to what others may say or what the specs of the stuff says.
Environmentally safe or bio lubes and cleaners. I am not a tree hugger but I don’t believe in purposely destroying the environment either. Plus you are getting this stuff on your hands and breathing the fumes in while cleaning and firing. So anything that is not as harmful is a plus. Most of the newer stuff has gone this direction. So whatever you decide on, just make sure it works. But I will always love the smell of Hoppes #9.
On a previous CRS class it rained all day the first day. There was lube issues on that day also. The students rifles and mine stayed wet all day. I know some of the students were leary of this but it was done to prove a point. The rifles didn’t melt and they continued to function with no issues except for two rifles.
The lube on those rifles was basically being washed away and the two students had malfunctions. Once they added more lube the rifles ran until the lube was washed away again. The two lubes being used were Wilson Combat Ultima Lube and Hoppes Gun Oil. Lesson learned.
Whatever lube you choose, you need to make sure it works. Under all conditions that you and your rifle could be exposed to where you live. Be it heat, cold(to include sub freezing temps), rain, snow, humidity, dust, dirt and fouling. If it doesn’t work, get rid of it and go with something else.
There are a lot of lubes on the market. Some work and some don’t. There is also a shit load of snake oil being sold. Don’t fall for the latest and greatest. Do your research and choose wisely.
Stay the hell away from grease on an AR. It will eventually gum everything up. Lube needs to be able flow and push fouling out of the way. Grease just makes it stick. There is a reason we call Frog Lube, Frog Glue.
I know it will be asked so I will go ahead and tell you now. I use SLIP 2000 and SLIP 2000 EWL for lube. I use SLIP 2000 Carbon Killer for cleaning.
The only way to find out if the stuff you are using works is to get off your ass, get to class and use it. It may be fine for a day at the range or plinking in the backyard. It may not be worth a damn if you have to bet your life or the lives of your loved ones on it.
FILO
Signal out, can you identify.
Je ne regrette rien...
Klagt Nicht, KämpftGood advice. Action it.
Also, make sure you have a pinned gas block. Several issues in Idaho this year from set screws working loose under ‘combat conditions.’ Recall the 4 day class video with the guy racking the bolt each time?
I received my Colt 6920 OEM2. I’m in the process of outfitting it. Pinned gas block. Colt quality. Get something along thosei as as your combat rifle. No pinned gas block, however cool the brand is? Move on.
I also use SLIP 2000. There is a clue there. Roll with it.
I also use the same stuff, always with positive results. Everyone should have SLIP 2000 EWL and the SLIP carbon killer in their range bag.
My mom said I could be anything I wanted to be when I grew up. So I chose to be a man.
Copy that.
Out.CTT 1502, NODF 1502, CP 1503, RC 002- Rifleman, FoF x 2, Run and Gun, RS/CTT, CLC, CQBC, Heat 1
Craig S.
There are so many options and everybody on the other boards has their favorite. I figure most are like me and go to the range a few times a year and run through a couple of mags on several different guns and never really push it to its limit. I’ve never heard of SLIP 2000, so I will be giving that a try.
Any hard use experience on Ballistol or Mobil-1 Synthetic?
Masters II
Georgia
June 2017 Intro CQB, FOF-Team Deplorables
October 2017 MVT South - CTT/DA
March 2018 DCHBecause most have no idea what they are talking about. There is a confusion about firearms: there are those who simply own them, as a sport or hobby, and there are those who use them as tools for combat. As a soldier, or an MVT student, we use them as tools for combat. The opinions of the hobbyists and uniformed are so much chaff in the wind. Lube, weapon type, pinned gas blocks etc: these are all things that you must get right for a combat weapon, for running hard under combat conditions. This is what this forum is about.
When you bring a frankengun to class, or to combat, you are confusing the hobby with the MVT purpose.
If people would just take the advice here on everything from weapons to gear, PT and training, we could move on. If this were the military, First Sergeant would just make it happen. Here, We have to rely on the gentle art of persuasion and it is like herding cats.
Another +1 for the Slip 2000 EWL.
Stuff works.
The thin lubes… do not.
And yes, as 1Sgt. mentioned you can actually see the lesser lubes burn off within the first few rounds you fire.
May be ok for a .22, not for serious use.
I find this somewhat hilarious in light of the un-ending circular discussions on lube you’ll find on most major gun forums….
"Time come Kimosabe, when good men must wear masks."
~TantoTried various lubes for aks, ar’s, glocks, and bolt guns. Aks can run a long time dry. Ars, got tired of the snake oils, never really had too much of a problem with the ones I did use if it needed more lube I applied it. Last 2-3 years, I use a mix of about 2/3s motor oil, 1/3 atf filled to a high point on a bottle, then top it off hoppes solvent. Never had any problems with this mix, 0 deg to 110 deg in many conditions in the western usa with high round count (steel case ammo). It also cleans up well. I use it on glocks.
Bolt guns and lever, I like dry spray on lube but also use the mix, I just apply it, then wipe it off to leave a thin film.
Main reason I like it is it works and it’s handy for my uses.
Any hard use experience on Ballistol or Mobil-1 Synthetic?
I have never used either but know guys that use Mobil-1. Have never heard any issues with it.
Tried various lubes for aks, ar’s, glocks, and bolt guns. Aks can run a long time dry. Ars, got tired of the snake oils, never really had too much of a problem with the ones I did use if it needed more lube I applied it. Last 2-3 years, I use a mix of about 2/3s motor oil, 1/3 atf filled to a high point on a bottle, then top it off hoppes solvent. Never had any problems with this mix, 0 deg to 110 deg in many conditions in the western usa with high round count (steel case ammo). It also cleans up well. I use it on glocks.
Bolt guns and lever, I like dry spray on lube but also use the mix, I just apply it, then wipe it off to leave a thin film.
Main reason I like it is it works and it’s handy for my uses.
I have talked to several people who make their own like you. If it works and you have absolutely run the guns through the wringer with it, drive on.
I find this somewhat hilarious in light of the un-ending circular discussions on lube you’ll find on most major gun forums….
Explain.
FILO
Signal out, can you identify.
Je ne regrette rien...
Klagt Nicht, KämpftLet’s see my M4 and M9 get slip 2000 here in SWA. I keep a small bottle of slip 2000 Ewl for the road in a bfg boo boo pouch. So I’m just jumping on the bandwagon. For the indoor range I use the crappy stuff I got when I forgot lube CLP, rem oil, whatever Walmart brand is in stock when I forgot slip 2000.
Support Side. Not flattering but better than weak side.
I used the aerosol Ballistol in Texas in February. No lubrication other than a spray into the bolt carrier every morning, and my gun went 2500 rounds without cleaning or jamming. Didn’t use it in extreme heat, cold, or wet conditions though.
Texas CTT/Mobility 2017, Missouri 1 Day CQB 2017, Texas HEAT 2 2018, Operation TeaSinker 2019
Team Coyote, Team Cowbell
I have ran Mobile-1 for the past 3 or so MVT classes without issue. I run a can and even with the extra gases and fouling I have never had an issue. Ran in the rain and in Texas heat. I also ran it on my 1911 for Scott’s DHC class earlier this year in the COLD
.I used to use Slip 2000 and like Max and First Sergeant said, it works very well. I know of nobody having a bad word to say about Slip 2000. It is the only thing “my” gun store sells.
I personally started to use Mobile 1 in class to ensure I have something that will work and don’t/can’t have access to Slip 2000. I just never went back to Slip 2000.
RS/CTT/CP (VTC 10/15)
RS/CTT/Mobility/NODF (Texas 02/16)
FoF (VTC 03/16 Blue Team)
CRS/CTT/NODF (Texas 02/17)
CQB/FoF (Texas 03/17)
DCH (VTC 03/17)
IG: jmp_texasAnyone using Pam Cooking Spray? I heard of a guy who used it on his AK, and then ran 50,000 rounds through it on full auto. In 10 minutes.
So that’s what I’m gonna do.
Fuck that SLIP2000 advice.
Damn 1st Sarge beat me to it. I’ve used CLP for along time then made the switch and tried froglube, oops. Lo and behold, it was like maple syrup that smelled of bengay and carbon. Lots of stuck cases that day. Press check? Nope, its glued shut. What a mess. Even with a NIBX coated BCG it was hell cleaning it all off. Thanks for the post and hope it helps folks who are going to try a new lube. I now use SLIP2000 as well and its been great.
Just a regular guy. Native Kansan and current Okie.
Anyone using Pam Cooking Spray? I heard of a guy who used it on his AK, and then ran 50,000 rounds through it on full auto. In 10 minutes.
So that’s what I’m gonna do.
Fuck that SLIP2000 advice.
DANG MAX!!!
Give a guy a liquid warning……just spewed OJ on my keyboard….heck, guess I’ll try it as lube……
Which is heavier - a soldier's pack or a slave's chains? Napoleon
Strength, Honor. Maximus (Gladiator)
If you tolerate evil, you yourself are evil.
Col Hugo Martinez, Commander Search BlocWilliam, in The Republic - CRS/CTT 2017, HEAT 2/CQB/FonF 2018, DCH 2018
I have a slightly different take on this slight thread drift.
I have never used either but know guys that use Mobil-1. Have never heard any issues with it.
I have talked to several people who make their own like you.
I consider this something to keep in the back of my mind for possible “Post-Event” use should my supply of what I consider to be appropriate lubricant be depleted.
Anyone using Pam Cooking Spray? I heard of a guy who used it on his AK, and then ran 50,000 rounds through it on full auto. In 10 minutes.
So that’s what I’m gonna do.
Fuck that SLIP2000 advice.
Max has made an excellent point in his usual unique style.
When Max, First Sergeant, or other Training Cadre offer advice it would be wise to take it seriously.
It is not a matter of conforming to their choices as the only solution, but is advice shaped by real combat experiences in extremely harsh environments.
Consider what your choices are based on when weighing your options.
If it works and you have absolutely run the guns through the wringer with it, drive on.
If above quote is accurate for your choice, so be it.
However if there is any doubt, particularly for “real world” application or even training at MVT.
I suggest you reconsider your options to avoid possible death as the worst outcome and wasted training opportunities at the least.
It’s your choice, just chose wisely!
View under the bus sucks. Slip 2000 it is.
Agreed. Getting crowded too.
Masters II
Georgia
June 2017 Intro CQB, FOF-Team Deplorables
October 2017 MVT South - CTT/DA
March 2018 DCHMy new motto: Do everything that Max and Scott say. I would have saved a lot of money and pain if I had. 4 years ago though I thought Nutnfancy was as all that and a bag of chips. That’s a trigger word for Max. Nutnfancy Nutnfancy Nutnfancy Nutnfancy!
Land Nav 06/15
Rifle Skills/CTT/CP
10/15
CLC 04/17
Alumni Live Fire 08/18Don’t let your past define your future.
Ive read alot of stuff over on the Mountain Guerrilla blog and Mosby mentions in an article that he uses mobil one. I like the stuff recomended here but i do use motor oil as a back up and ive learned the hard way not to use grease , im still pretty new to carbine training (ive been to 5 classes with various instructors)and ive made a couple dumb mistakes like using grease( followed by a pita cleaning) or running my rifle dry or attempting a semi-torture test(horrible idea btw). Now about that pam…sounds like a good idea..but i heard bacon grease is more versatile and doubles up as a good haji repellent. Im suprised magpul hasnt started making tactical bacon clp for the guys over in the sandbox.
Any recommendations on maintaining an AR in extended rainy conditions? During the recent CQBC my carbine ran fine with Slip 2000 EWL in the action but I neglected to coat my roll pins, BUIS, light mounting hardware, end plate etc. and they all rusted up. Was thinking of using a brush to coat every last bit of iron in Slip 2000 next time.
SE Florida ☆ CQBC 2017 ☆ CTT/DA 2017 ☆ CLC 2018
Learned my lesson the hard way the first time through CTT…if it weren’t for these guys direction….I would be up the creek for sure….hopefully the bugs are all worked out…Slip 2000!
Any recommendations on maintaining an AR in extended rainy conditions? During the recent CQBC my carbine ran fine with Slip 2000 EWL in the action but I neglected to coat my roll pins, BUIS, light mounting hardware, end plate etc. and they all rusted up. Was thinking of using a brush to coat every last bit of iron in Slip 2000 next time.
I use a barbers brush to put a very light coat on the outside of my rifle. I just use the SLIP2000.
FILO
Signal out, can you identify.
Je ne regrette rien...
Klagt Nicht, KämpftGuess what?
We had more lube issues at the last HEAT 1 class. It was another one of those cold and wet days on Friday. It rained or misted all day.
Care to guess which lube caused the problem? If you guessed Frog Lube you are correct. The guy running it told me that he knew that we didn’t recommend it but he thought it would work anyway. Now he knows better.
The other one was 3n1 oil. That stuff is great for your hunting shotgun that doesn’t get much use. For a hard use AR it burns off to quick.
My recommendation hasn’t changed, SLIP 2000 or SLIP 2000 EWL. It flat out works.
Questions about this thread came up on Friday and I said I would bump it. I can’t remember who asked. When you read this, let me know.
GET RID OF AMBI SAFTIES.
They will cause you to pick up some training scars that are hard to get rid of.FILO
Signal out, can you identify.
Je ne regrette rien...
Klagt Nicht, KämpftMy recommendation hasn’t changed, SLIP 2000 or SLIP 2000 EWL. It flat out works.
Remember when certain products are specifically recommended by First Sergeant or Max its not a controlling power hungry thing!
Its a it works 100% thing!
What works for a brief range session or some plinking is not the same as combat or even training for simulated combat.
Now in this case First Sergeant is recommending SLIP 2000 or SLIP 2000 EWL.
It isn’t because he is getting kickbacks from SLIP, its because he knows this a product that won’t interfere with your training.
The Training your paying money for!
In this case we’re taking lubricants, does this mean there are no other lubricants that will work?
Of course not!
But unless you have solid experience why go another direction?
Wasting your training time and others over your insistence on Billy Bob’s “Slick Goose Shit Grease” is not good head-work.
Do you really trust Max and First Sergeant to run you through “Live Fire” courses, but not what kind of lube to use!
Okay, owning up to my mistakes:
I have used Frog Lube in previous training courses but never in the conditions present at the April (2019) HEAT1. I thought,” Hey this stuff will work, it always has.”
Until it didn’t! Here I was paying money for the class and having to deal with problems that could have been avoided by taking the advice of Max, First Sergeant, and others.
I’m cleaning Frog Lube off all of my firearms and switching to Slip 2000 EWL. Thank you Kent for loaning some at class.
Enough said… don’t try to outsmart the instructors, they know what works!Formerly known as Pixelman.
HEAT 1. Apr 2019
Questions about this thread came up on Friday and I said I would bump it. I can’t remember who asked. When you read this, let me know.
That was me. Thanks for the bump
Already placed an order for some SLIP when I got back from HEAT 1.
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