February 14, 2016 at 7:13 am #24658
….but it needs to be said.
As I drive to Texas, a quick Internet search finds this:
It’s simply about the facts of Liberty and the history of the founding of the nation. As the article says, it doesn’t matter if a majority of the nation is or was Christian. It is not an attack on Christianity or any religion.
So calm the fuck down.
I was disturbed, listening to KrisAnne Hall talking David out of Malheur, to hear how much theyou referenced to the Bible and what she said about it. She is a Constitutional Attorney, but misunderstands it at basis due to her strong religious convictions. And David is a messianic Jew!
On the one hand you have the left, who reject Liberty, and on the other you have the far religious right who have a fundamental misunderstanding of the Constitution and Libery, due to their conviction that it is based on their particular faith.
Be rational. Be of faith if you wish, but get the facts right.February 14, 2016 at 7:26 am #24660EricParticipant
I don’t think you are out of line at all Max.
I consider myself a christian, but also understand that not everyone does, nor will it ever be that everyone does.
The country was founded on principles that can be found within the bible, but it was also founded specifically so the citizenry would have the opportunity to worship freely, as they saw fit, or not at all if that was their choice.
"I have sworn upon the altar of god eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man"
Thomas JeffersonFebruary 14, 2016 at 7:55 am #24661rampantraptorParticipant
I agree with this 100%. There’s an old saying that when religion and politics mix, it corrupts both. One reason I got sick of evangelical churches was the sheer politicking. I remember during the Kerry-Bush race in 2004 our youth pastor was all but saying that we needed to get our parents to vote for Bush because if we didn’t the gays would take over and Christians who spoke against homosexuality would be arrested for hate crimes. You should of seen the look when me and my brother said we were Democrats, they were all diehard Republicans – you would’ve thought we recited the shahadah in church. (Though we’re both more libertarian now, don’t worry, this was back in high school.)
My father’s family was Catholic, When I did research on my family tree, I found out my ancestors settled in St. Mary’s City in 1684, probably because they were English Catholics. Sure enough, four years later the Puritans took over, made their faith the *official* faith, and my family was unable to worship freely until the Revolution.
I was raised by my mother, so I spent my childhood in an Anabaptist church (Church of the Brethren, if you’re wondering), one thing I did like was that they were explicitly apolitical (they didn’t even like their members voting or running for office, though that was a bit much for me), they were all about personal conviction and individual choice when it came to faith, not the “turn or burn” rhetoric of some of these evangelicals. I’m agnostic now, but I do give the Brethren credit for instilling some of those quasi-libertarian thoughts in my head.
I’m all for people practicing their faith freely, but for the love of God (and country), if you want your faith to be free, keep the state as far away from it as possible.
- - -
Jîn, Jiyan, AzadîFebruary 14, 2016 at 10:42 am #24667
I think it’s hard not to found a group, or nation on SOME kind of religious principles. To me it’s so intertwined it’s hard to separate the morals, ethics, and principles of a political system, with those of a spiritual belief. To me this is the essential problem we face today. The Kollectivists have torn every aspect of religion from the fabric of government, and this vacuum has allowed their worship of political correctness to replace it.
I think a nation needs some kind of religious founding to base their moral principles on. My view is this is where all moral principles come from. It is a belief in something. A higher moral responsibility to something other than yourself. Your family, your tribe, your nation, whatever. It must have a spiritual component.
I guess the rub is what people define as a religion, and all the trappings that become associated with it down through the ages. Simple beliefs become grandiose religions; competing sects attempt to convert each other by the sword; people pervert it’s beliefs to further their own agendas. In other words, business as usual.
CTT 1505, NODF 1505, CP 1503, LN 1, RC II, RiflemanFebruary 14, 2016 at 12:01 pm #24670
I personally get sickend by it. I see much of organized religion like a scourge on the world, that more often than not causes people to behave badly towards others.
Someone will bring up morality and relative morality etc. I think there is a myth, most likely propagated by Church propaganda, about our Pagan history and heritage. If you look at Saxon/Norse/Germanic history and heritage, you see honor, morality, common law, the organs of society all back then. The Christian Church took over and incorporated a lot of those societie’s ways to make conversion palatable. And of course caused much pain atrocity and disaster!
We had morality, honor, courage, good and evil before we had the Christian church. I also find it hard to stomach some of the Church’s teachings on such things as non violent resistance etc, as espoused by Krissanne Hall in that live feed. I’ll stand in a shield wall and put an axe on your head, before I will ‘turn the other cheek.’
I am a huge proponent of Liberty. But this is why you lose me, and many others, because of the religious extremism.
I am on the way to Texas, just getting gas. As I woke in my Hall in Virginia before departure, I could hear the howling of the ‘Wild Hunt’ over the house. My pagan heritage gives me more comfort than Christianity does.
If you are offended by that, then I am not your man. It’s another obstacle to a united fight for Rightful Liberty.February 14, 2016 at 1:28 pm #24671
I agree that there are common traits that pre-date any specific religious sect. But I also believe that these traits came from whatever religious beliefs that the people held at the time. I don’t know if you want to call these things universal truths, but there is a spiritual component to ourselves. An awareness that separates us from animals. I was raised up Christian but don’t necessarily ascribed myself to that group, or any organized religious group. But I do think there are higher moral principles and values that we should aspire to. However you chose to define this: religious, spiritual, morality, ethics.
What I reject is the use of politics to define what is acceptable or unacceptable behavior. In effect, replacing “religion”, as it were, with science. The science of politics. The state being the arbitrator of what’s right and wrong. This means the state is now free to mold you to whatever they want.
Unfortunately, “The Church” has been as abusive as the Statists who now oppose them. So here we sit, between rock and hard place.
I refuse to accept the premise that the government is the ultimate authority, yet I don’t necessarily think “the church” (organized religion as it presently stands) is the answer either. My tribe is those who seek freedom. Because we can. Because we want to. Because fuck communism. And all their kind.
CTT 1505, NODF 1505, CP 1503, LN 1, RC II, RiflemanFebruary 14, 2016 at 2:19 pm #24673whitebear620Participant
As a christian, I do like this.
The reason for separation of church and state is very simple: when the state controls the church, the church further loses it’s way and often becomes another propaganda tool for the state; when the church controls the state, some of the greatest atrocities are committed.
Freedom of worship goes both ways, while I am free to pray in public, so is the satanist who disagrees with everything I believe, as is the atheist/agnostic to choose not to pray at all.February 14, 2016 at 2:22 pm #24675AndrewParticipant
You can worship cockroaches for all I care. But, do not try to ram your beliefs down my throat. Same goes for being gay/queer, whatever you call it. Do what you want, just don’t come to me and tell me that I have to accept it or approve of it.
The only religion I have a problem with is the one that wants to cut off my head because I don’t believe in their profit.
I am “Christian” btw, just not a real strong, church going Catholic. But, the fact that there is a Supreme being, is plain to see everyday and I also, am positive, in my mind at least, that prayers work.
But, I am not going to tell, the collective YOU, that you have to have my belief system. Just don’t try to tell me that I have to change to accommodate whatever it is you (collective again) happen to believe in today.
Have a safe trip down here to Texas. Consider finding a place here to set up shop here, on the proper side of the Mississippi.February 14, 2016 at 2:35 pm #24676RoadkillParticipant
Ok, here we go.
For three centuries historians presented American history from a broad perspective. But, in the sixties the historical writers embraced what is called the,”Economic view of American history”where by economic causes are the primary emphasis of study. Consequently students study,”taxation without representation” when they examine the Declaration of Independence rather than important, civil, governmental, and moral principles addressed in that document.
A quote from George Wasington during his farewell address goes,”Of all habits and dispositions which lead to political prosperity, religion and morality are indispensable supports”.
The basis of our Constitution is based on the idea our unalienable rights come from our Creator, you know, We hold these truths to be self evident… All men endowed by their Creator. Deist, Agnostic, Christian, Episcapalian, Cogregationalist, whatever, all believed in the self evident truth of the Creator and the rights given to us by Him, not by any man
So, we can stand up for and defend the liberty of all men, but if we do so without acknowledging where, and who, gave us these rights and liberty, I believe we fight in vain.
That being said, I will stand and fight for the liberty gifted to all men. Planning on coming to a class in May or June, if you”ll still have me.
Signed, Roadkill, a Christian Costitutionalist Libertarian
RS/CTT Nov 16
HEAT1 Aug18February 14, 2016 at 3:57 pm #24678RoadkillParticipant
I totally agree Max on the turn the other cheek. Probably the most mis interpreted verse in the Bible. That was referring the the Roman law of Lex Talionosis, basically the law of revenge. It is not saying don’t defend yourself or your family or tribe. That is just wrong. Also many things were done in the name of Christianty, or religion that were evil, that were neither Christian or religious. Religion has probably sent more people to hell than any other institution. I say this as a Christian.
RS/CTT Nov 16
HEAT1 Aug18February 14, 2016 at 5:17 pm #24681RRSParticipant
I know this will confuse everyone but maybe it might ring a bit true to some. The statists primarily the organized left uses these busy body religious women and their beta husbands as internal control of the right wing.
How? The statists spew the usual invective “racist, sexist and homophobic” this scares the gals as the statists are seen as authority for good or bad and hence these women and their feckless white knight enablers then go on to tone police the Real Men.
This woman needs a strong firm hand to guide her, as do all the empowered “Grizzly Mommas”, scolds and gossips, and yes even the third world baby thieves and their sociopathic virtue signaling.
Firm hand rant off
Tactical training for Liberty, Fraternity, ExcellenceFebruary 14, 2016 at 5:59 pm #24682
RRS: interesting. But what the fuck is “third world baby thieves and their sociopathic virtue signalling.”?February 14, 2016 at 7:06 pm #24684HiDesertRatParticipant
A question. Roadkill says:
“I totally agree Max on the turn the other cheek. Probably the most mis interpreted verse in the Bible. That was referring the the Roman law of Lex Talionosis, basically the law of revenge.”
I know nothing of the Bible, and had to look up this, and referral to
Matthew 5:38-42. Having a rather atavistic approach to religion in general, and having not seen what exactly your view was, I wish to know, so it makes sense, if time permits.
ThanksFebruary 14, 2016 at 7:50 pm #24686grammaParticipant
What I reject is the use of politics to define what is acceptable or unacceptable behavior. In effect, replacing “religion”, as it were, with science.
I have to agree with Diz here. There’s even a word for it: Technocracy. I won’t try to explain it, because I’m still studying what it is. I do know, it encompasses all the progressive & socialistic NWO/UN nonsense.
I’m glad I’m not the only one who was troubled by KrisAnne on those phone calls. I think I even yelled STFU a couple of times, because she was clearly not helping the situation; simply attempting to keep David talking.
Any form of Theocracy is bound to be tyrannical. No matter which religion is trying to be the government.February 14, 2016 at 9:06 pm #24687RRSParticipant
Virtue signaling is that holier than thou action or words meant to impress or ingratiate the signaler with others or dominate others, depending. “Third world baby thieves” are those types who fly off to adopt babies from the third world to virtue signal, very popular with the Evangelical set.
Why? Animal analogy time, females of herd species continually spar for dominance within their herd, ask a knowledgeable hunter or herdsman, human females are a herd variety, virtue signaling is their hooves and teeth.
As an aside, my advice to my fellow bulls when you spot a herd of females in the valley below, walk don’t run down the hill.
Tactical training for Liberty, Fraternity, ExcellenceFebruary 14, 2016 at 9:35 pm #24688Brian from GeorgiaParticipant
I have a close circle of friends (not a word I use lightly) that are the most liberty-minded people you could meet. Most are born-again Christians like me, some are what you might call Christian-by-upbringing and some are nonbelievers.
You know what we talk about? The thing we have in common, which is a love of individual liberty. You know what we don’t do? Alienate each other by focusing on differences.
We need all the allies we can get in this fight.
3-4 Aug 2013 CRCD, 2-6 Aug 2014 CRCD/Patrol, 30 Sep 2016 Run n Gun, 1-2 Oct 2016 FoF, 3-4 March 2018 DCH alumni
Team CoyoteFebruary 14, 2016 at 9:44 pm #24689
@Brian. I completely agree with you, although I am wondering if your post is a dig at the direction of this post? I’m not sure, so perhaps you can enlighten?
I completely agree – that the religious right is alienating people who do not follow their beliefs. I am happy that Gramma and I agree that Krissanne Hall was disturbing. I actually tried to wrute to her, a little while back, and heard nothing back. Now I see all this, I wonder if it is because I don’t have the right ‘evangelical’ credentials.
I am interested in Liberty. I say to people: Don’t come at me with your religious assumptions, because I may simply not agree with them……February 14, 2016 at 11:26 pm #24690wheelseeParticipant
Mathew 5:39b – If anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to them the other cheek also.
Notice the first part……for me to slap you you on your right cheek, I will most likely use a back-hand (as most people are right-handed)……it is my understanding that most, if not all, cultures consider a back-hand an insult…….so if I am insulted I am to turn the other cheek……
I also like Luke 22:36 – ”
But now,” he said, “take your money and a traveler’s bag. And if you don’t have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one!
Even Peter was carrying a sword in the Garden of Gethesmane……an early day concealed sword holder, if you will……
Which is heavier - a soldier's pack or a slave's chains? Napoleon
Strength, Honor. Maximus (Gladiator)
If you tolerate evil, you yourself are evil.
Col Hugo Martinez, Commander Search Bloc
William, in The RepublicFebruary 14, 2016 at 11:54 pm #24691JustARandomGuyParticipant
There’s a big difference between “religion” and “spirituality”.
There’s a reason why “he got religion” is projected in a derogatory manner.
Having grown up in a hardcore-religious household and brand of religion, I’ve seen the inside of the hive, if you will. Unfortunately it ain’t pretty.
Frankly, I wouldn’t even put the ultra-religious crowd in the “far right” category; they have their own- let’s go with manic-religiocracy. And having associated with such folk more than I’ve liked, and been exposed to the theory and actions of those involved in certain forms of said religiocracy, I put them firmly on the other side of the aisle with the statists and wannabe-dictators. They have nothing to do with liberty, as their self-appointed job in life is to castigate any that don’t agree with them, hence they are no better than the left and their “culture of silencing”. Sorry, but they don’t deserve the title of “right wing”, or even “conservative” because once you drill past the veneer of Liberty, you only find insanity.
A more wretched hive of scum and villainy, critical, fault-finding without cause, liars and hypocrites and seekers of personal gain on the backs of the gullible you will not find, (aside from Washington DC. )
I could tell so many stories…. it would need it’s own thread.
Suffice it to say, if you run across anyone trying to get you or anyone else to take either physical or monetary action because they had some vision, or found some “new light” in the Bible, or because “God told them to” *coughammonbundycough* RUN AWAY!
Next thing you know we’ll be chopping off heads because God said to.
You think I’m crazy? Why not? I’ve seen the near cult-like devotion to different variations/sects in particular brands of religion where people follow dumb shit with all their heart and soul, because some lying POS said to. Rolling a few heads is really not to many steps from that…
That being said…. There’s the above differentiation between religion and spirituality. Some of the most genuine, pleasant, and “down to earth” folk you can find I would describe as “spiritual”, which isn’t something you can really describe, it’s more along the line of “actions speak louder than words”. Kind of like the way you can tell the squared away from the buffoons in the tactical community- the competent don’t run around advertising it, trying to get everyone to follow their “brand” or “lifestyle” and frankly, if you never asked, you’d probably never know. But you *know* because they just *are* what they say- they have that sort of simple, quiet confidence that says everything their mouth isn’t.
That “awareness of universal truths” that Diz mentioned.
In short, the manic-religious morons sour the cause of liberty and drive people away, or worse actively cause needless resistance where there wasn’t any.
The “rational spiritualists” (for lack of a better term) can create common ground where none exists, and have a side effect of adding a quiet sense of “right” to the cause.
I’m all for one’s right to pray over lunch in public, or decline to support whatever chic social issue of the day is being rammed down everyone’s throats and actively speak out against it.
Just don’t be a screaming religious moron.
“Virtue signalling”… I like that term. Hammer on nail.
"Time come Kimosabe, when good men must wear masks."
~TantoFebruary 15, 2016 at 12:07 am #24692JustARandomGuyParticipant
Sorry guys- just had to do it.
"Time come Kimosabe, when good men must wear masks."
~TantoFebruary 15, 2016 at 12:36 am #24693Joe (G.W.N.S.)Moderator
“I was disturbed, listening to KrisAnne Hall talking David out of Malheur, to hear how much theyou referenced to the Bible and what she said about it.”
I haven’t listened to enough of her work to know what she truly believes.
Listening to her interaction with David seemed to me more the feeble attempts of a amateur negotiator trying to talk him out, than a concrete example to her beliefs, but I do not know. I think she was almost desperate enough to offer to have his children if he would just come out.
A government sanctioned religion was certainly not the intent of the “Founding Fathers,” but neither was the elimination of religion from public, to include government office holders.
The expectation being one does not have to leave their beliefs at the front door, but would not give preferential or discriminative service based on others beliefs.
Religion was not to be censured or mandated.
Evil people have perverted many things to achieve their own twisted desires, as noted this includes religion.
However even political ideas can be perverted to this end as demonstrated by deliberate misrepresentations of the Constitution.
“I also find it hard to stomach some of the Church’s teachings on such things as non violent resistance etc, as espoused by Krissanne Hall in that live feed. I’ll stand in a shield wall and put an axe on your head, before I will ‘turn the other cheek.”
As with most forms of written communication context is very important, not to mention proper translation when dealing what was originally written in a different language.
As previously noted this is about revenge, not personal defense. In this case our reaction to insult.
Another notable misinterpretation within the Bible:
Exodus 20 verse 13 (King James Version) Thou shall not kill. (from the Ten Commandments)
This was mistranslated from the Greek. In Hebrew the word is Ratsach which translates to “murder.”
So the correct translation reads: Thou shall not murder.
All murder involves killing, but not all killing is murder! (self-defense, just war, etc…)
The above relates to somethings I responded to in regards to a comment on the Blog.
I wrote (abridged):
As a Christian it is expected that I love my fellow man regardless of their background or belief.
I am also to forgive others trespasses against me.
Clarification for those that attempt to twist this out of proportion, I am fully capable of loving and forgiving those that would do harm to me or innocents even though I may have to kill (not murder) them, not in vengeance but legitimate defense or just war.”
“I will also never fight for Liberty alongside those whose intent is a theocracy.”
I stand by this, as a Christian it is not mans place to subvert God’s decision to grant man freedom to choose and of course I would never submit to other religions being forced upon me.February 15, 2016 at 1:14 am #24695First SergeantModerator
Signal out, can you identify.
Je ne regrette rien...
Klagt Nicht, KämpftFebruary 15, 2016 at 1:36 am #24697
” I actually tried to wrute to her, a little while back, and heard nothing back. Now I see all this, I wonder if it is because I don’t have the right ‘evangelical’ credentials.”
Having met Ms. Hall several years ago, before she was famous, it likely has little to do with your religion as opposed to name recognition and advantages of association. Think politician but her faith IS an integral part of her life as it is for most Christians.
Moving on, if some people’s lack of faith does not inhibit or preclude Christians working together with them to preserve liberty then why shouldn’t it work the other way? Can’t we all get along for the sake of liberty?
Chuck Baldwin and his son are committed Christians dedicated to rightful liberty and have both written and spoken from a Christian perspective on remaining armed, turning the other check etc.. Rather than regurgitate it, those interested would do well to spend some time and effort to review the material.
In the end the vast majority of the founders of the U.S. were members of Christian churches, had no problem fighting to found this country, and managed to give the world a form of government based upon rightful liberty. That fact should at least earn a bit of respect for them as well as those who share their faith.February 15, 2016 at 6:44 am #24698
You see, this is where it gets silly. My original point was simply that 1) this is not a Christian country, in terms of the words and deeds of the founders, and 2) the actions and mindset of many extreme Christians would appear to be counter to the goal of Rightful Liberty – i.e. they would seek to pervert the country even now into a theocracy.
I understand JARG’s points, for many of the worst people I have come across have professed deep religion. I agree with his point about spirituality.
But what happens? People then start to argue using the text of scripture, which makes me laugh, because those who do never consider that others do not actually believe it. Scripture has come so far through history and the lens of translation and amendment and the political interference of man’s churches, that how can you even know what the truth is? Hence even Christians argue over sects and interpretations etc. The evil of religious politics!
So please don’t quote scripture at me to argue the relation of extreme religious views to Liberty. Be a christian if you wish but understand that others do not follow it. Both my wife and I were raised as different types of Christian, my wife evangelical, and we both are rational enough to reject it – primarily due to the evil we saw on behalf of the people within the churches.
Hence, I prefer a casual spiritual connection, not rabid religion of any sort. I am about Rightful Liberty. If these comments drive you away due to your religion, that is your right, but it also tells me that you don’t understand Rightful Liberty.
I will tell you that I consider myself a good moral man, husband and father. But due to my beliefs, many extreme Christians would see me as evil, even as some form of satanist, or at least some poor pagan who is surely going to hell. I see the same from that female blogger who’s name i forget, who is an extreme Catholic and often talks of demons etc. She’s a fucking mad woman.
I have to tell you that only in America would I even have to raise this point. I’ll go to a Clhurch of England (i.e. Episcopal) church any day of the week and enjoy some somber spiritualty and hymn singing. Only in America have I seen the extreme religious views and judgements of others. Some think I am a Pagan, but only in a spiritual sense where I enjoy the heritage of our ancestral beliefs.
So if you wish to judge me, to hell with you.February 15, 2016 at 7:31 am #24700
Unfortunately, extremism in either direction leads to a dictatorship of either religion, or science. Regardless of the party line, the end result is the loss of your freedoms. This seems to be a common theme throughout the ages. Scoundrels use different beliefs as a vehicle to suppress the people. It really doesn’t matter what they’re preaching; it is all about control of the population. And power and wealth for those in charge. Once you see past the rhetoric, it’s always been the same.
The irony of it all is we are living in the biggest explosion of information in history; so the facts are plain for all to see. Yet many are so brainwashed into believing their party line that they fail to see the truth. Others are too comfortable to care.
Same as it ever was.
CTT 1505, NODF 1505, CP 1503, LN 1, RC II, RiflemanFebruary 15, 2016 at 8:53 am #24708
If I could try and distill my point down, I would say this: be religious, but be so with the principles of Rightful Liberty. Accept that not everyone accepts the primacy of your views. Don’t judge them for that or try to push your beliefs, as if those who do not share them are inferior or damned.
I am sitting in an old diner in Texas with 29 people at a long table in the middle for the room having a meeting, talking about Jesus, scripture and the Nation. That’s fine with me.February 15, 2016 at 9:01 am #24709TParticipant
“I see the same from that female blogger who’s name i forget, who is an extreme Catholic and often talks of demons etc. She’s a fucking mad woman.”
TommyFebruary 15, 2016 at 10:48 am #24714
Everyone loves to talk about how America was founded on Christian ideals or America was created out of the need of religious freedom, but in actuality America was built by those who didn’t like people controlling them, from the original founders through all the different spurts of immigration over the centuries,people came here when they wanted their property to be protected and when they wanted their hard work to pay off and not be absorbed by the “state”. Most of the founding beliefs fit very well with Christianity, but I don’t think we as Christians have a patent on “doing the right thing” It fits really well with the beliefs of most organized religion thankfully, but we (meaning us as Americans not spiritually) were created out of the desire to be free to practice whatever we wanted as long as it did not get in the way of the liberty of the guy next door. Liberty in many senses fits with beliefs of most organized religion (except one notable exception ironically enough) The thread has definitely hit on a few different points but in the end liberty = freedom to believe what you want. If you want to be able to worship who, when, and where you want, then you need to make sure you are on the team even when the team isn’t talking about all the religious angles you want to hear. SO whether some says “God, Duty, Honor, Country” or “Duty, Honor, Country” if they are fighting for liberty and OUR freedom we need to support them and not alienate the other half of the team. Don’t let them divide us even further, dont let the search for a perfect solution be the enemy of the opportunity to take the good solution.February 15, 2016 at 11:06 am #24716hellokittyParticipant
I am a Christian and I believe in Liberty as defined in the Constitution. I do not have an issue believing in both. And do not feel they conflict at all. This country was founded by men of varying beliefs and religions.
In my limited experience, I have found that People/Humans are always the problem. There is nothing wrong with Christianity or the Constitution. But when you introduce humans, it will get fucked up every time. You can explain this via evolution, the fall of man in the Bible, or modern medicine (we don’t cull the herd anymore), etc. But if you get more than two humans together they will screw it up every time. On this thread, I believe, there are frustrations with our laws not following the Constitution and Christians judging others. My theory is that humans have fucked it up. Therefore, I will not turn away from my belief in the Constitution or the Bible.
But then it’s just my opinion, and I try to stay in my lane.
CTT 1502, NODF 1502, CP 1503, RC 002- Rifleman, FoF x 2, Run and Gun, RS/CTT, CLC, CQBC, Heat 1
Craig S.February 15, 2016 at 11:50 am #24721PinkyParticipant
“If I could try and distill my point down, I would say this: be religious, but be so with the principles of Rightful Liberty. Accept that not everyone accepts the primacy of your views. Don’t judge them for that or try to push your beliefs, as if those who do not share them are inferior or damned.
I am sitting in an old diner in Texas with 29 people at a long table in the middle for the room having a meeting, talking about Jesus, scripture and the Nation. That’s fine with me.”
This above . I was waiting to let this whole thing play out a bit before commenting. Max, the first couple posts got me a bit concerned as the tone came across as “we don’t want you Bible-thumping Jesus freak Christians around.”
I’ve attended a bunch of MVT classes and have not once tried to preach, convert, etc. If someone brings it faith, happy to talk about it. (I have asked politely, if possible, to drop the “GD” and instructors were pretty good about it). We can argue the roots of the Constitution and Founding Fathers and that’s all fine, but let’s do this without tearing each other down – to each his own. I and most mainline Christians accept that most/few will come to salvation by our actions, nor is it our job to judge others (nor should we). There are some that are a bit overzealous in their words for sure.
With one exception, all religions or lack thereof are compatible with the Constitution. The head-chopper religion is wholly incompatible and is not just a religion, but a it’s a whole way of life, civil, judicial, etc. It cannot “co-exist” by its very definition (for all those with those bumper stickers). No other religion instructs followers to kill in God’s name.
In the name of seeking Rightful Liberty together, “can’t we all just get along?” The last couple of “events” have appeared as total CF’s based on strife and infighting, lack of leadership, egos, etc. I’d hate for someone’s religion or lack thereof to cause the same type of infighting when things get interesting for real.
My two cents.
"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms."
-- Thomas Jefferson
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